Laminated ukes' sound improving over time-your experience?

bellgamin said:
I only buy a lam when it sounds lovely on the very same day that I try it out, prior to purchase. My lams don't change, nor would I want them to do so.

My ukes with perfect-sounding solid tops do change when played a LOT (thus becoming even more better perfecter) -- especially the cedar tops. My theory: solid topwood has growth lines. Vibration of the topwood flexes those lines so that the topwood can move more freely, & be better synergized** to that uke's sounds. (YEMV**)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

*Synergy is the creation of a whole that is greater than the simple sum of its parts.
**Your Ears May Vary
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Thank you for your comment

I envy you living there. It must be nice to visit the many shops full of ukuleles where you can audition many instruments and decide on the best. In Vermont my options are limited so mail order is really the only option. I agree with you on cedar. I have a cedar topped concert uke I like very much and am hoping to find one in tenor size. A member of a ukulele club I attend lent me their ohana TK 80 with port orford cedar top and oregon myrtle solid back and sides. It was the most delightful instrument I have ever played.
 
If solid top or all solid wood ukuleles change over time with playing, why do they always change for the better? Why wouldn't they be just as likely to get worse?
 
rrieth said:
I should have phrased my last post differently and I apologize if I offended anyone. I was only trying to keep the thread on the original topic which is peoples' personal experience with changes in sound of new all-laminate ukuleles over time. I appreciate the comments of those who have posted on topic comments and look forward to hearing from others. This is my first experience with a thread I started going astray and apologize again for handling it awkwardly..
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No big deal.
 
I thought the question referred to laminates in general improving over time, i.e., construction methods and materials are improving. I think that's an interesting question, too, but will drag this discussion in an entirely different direction. FWIW, I think they are improving, as are ukuleles in general
 
Rllink said:
If solid top or all solid wood ukuleles change over time with playing, why do they always change for the better? Why wouldn't they be just as likely to get worse?
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Who says they always get better? :p We're just more likely to hear about the ones that do.
 
Ziret said:
I thought the question referred to laminates in general improving over time, i.e., construction methods and materials are improving. I think that's an interesting question, too, but will drag this discussion in an entirely different direction. FWIW, I think they are improving, as are ukuleles in general
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Definitely agree that the construction of laminates has improved over the years, but there's also some really interesting materials now being used in laminates, not all of which are wood. It's highly debatable that those synthetics could improve over the life of an instrument. One source on laminate construction: https://blog.taylorguitars.com/buye...-solid-layered-laminate-acoustic-guitar-woods
My interpretation was that OP was claiming that his two laminate instrument examples improved over time. Whether they did or didn't, we don't have the testing to verify, and assuming they did change in some way, improvement is entirely a subjective call. But improvement over the life of a laminate instrument is not always possible based on construction materials employed in creating the laminate.
 
Rllink said:
If solid top or all solid wood ukuleles change over time with playing, why do they always change for the better? Why wouldn't they be just as likely to get worse?
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Like you said in your signature I am no expert.

My experience is with a small handful of guitars and ukuleles i own. The laminate ukuleles have the same sound spectrum they had when new, but are more resonant and responsive. I have a Washburn rover travel guitar which sounded more like a banjo when new but has mellowed to having a sound spectrum as guitarlike as it can be with its tiny body. I have two solid topped ukes, a cedar topped concert and a spruce topped tenor. I don't think the concert has changed much since I bought it, but it sounded really good from day 1. The spruce top uke, like the laminates, was somewhat muffled when I first bought it and it improved , but I had also worked on the saddle which was loose fitting as delivered. I have a solid rosewood/spruce 000 size guitar which has greatly improved in volume and responsiveness. All the changes have been positive in my opinion. The change in the washburn might be considered for the worse if someone liked the banjolike sound originally.

Based on my small sample I would say that with some exceptions, aging doesn't change the character of the sound an instrument. It can make the instrument more resonant and responsive, but not with every instrument.

I realize I strayed off topic a bit, but only to provide an answer to a question on topic.
 
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kookoolele said:
Who says they always get better? :p We're just more likely to hear about the ones that do.
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See post #17-one person experienced negative change and admitted to it.

Thanks for the input.
 
rrieth said:
Please limit comments to your personal experience with new all laminate ukuleles.
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How new a laminate will be considered for this contest? How about laminate back and sides but with a two-piece solid top?

Q: how long were the same strings on the uku? I don't recall you mentioning that.

My plywood Makala concert MK-C sounds terrible now, but it sounded ok enough to buy a few years ago. Maybe it is the PhD strings I have on there right now.
 
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Neil_O said:
How new a laminate will be considered for this contest? How about laminate back and sides but with a two-piece solid top?

Q: how long were the same strings on the uku? I don't recall you mentioning that.

My plywood Makala concert MK-C sounds terrible now, but it sounded ok enough to buy a few years ago. Maybe it is the PhD strings I have on there right now.
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I brought this subject up because the general opinion is that the top wood is most responsible for the tone and that laminated (ply)wood doesn't change in tone, so for the purpose of this thread we should probably stick with plywood tops.

I started this thread because of the experience I outlined in the opening post and was curious about other peoples' experience.

The strings have not been changed on either ukulele. They are wearing the strings from the factory.

Thank you for sharing your experience.
 
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I see how a misunderstanding occurred. It's no big deal. Just bad timing of comments. :)

That being said, I agree with Rllink.
The notion that instruments, especially laminate, 'improves' over time seems too much hocus pocus. What would the science be? At the moment, to me its more logical to consider other factors like improved familiarity with nuances of instrument, subconscious improvement in skill, temperature/humidity at the time, acoustics of the area, condition of the strings, the alignment of the planets & stars..and most importantly, we are subjective observers.

There could be a substantial placebo effect in play.
When I used to believe instruments improved with use, they did. Once I stopped believing, they stopped. Fancy that!
 
kissing said:
I see how a misunderstanding occurred. It's no big deal. Just bad timing of comments. :)

That being said, I agree with Rllink.
The notion that instruments, especially laminate, 'improves' over time seems too much hocus pocus. What would the science be? At the moment, to me its more logical to consider other factors like improved familiarity with nuances of instrument, subconscious improvement in skill, temperature/humidity at the time, acoustics of the area, condition of the strings, the alignment of the planets & stars..and most importantly, we are subjective observers.

There could be a substantial placebo effect in play.
When I used to believe instruments improved with use, they did. Once I stopped believing, they stopped. Fancy that!
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I posted about this only because I had experienced this unexpected improvement in two instances and was curious whether others had noticed the same. You may notice in an earlier post I described the change as being more resonant and responsive without a change in the basic sound spectrum, as though the uke had a mute installed initially and then it was removed. There was no sprinkling of pixie dust that made a formerly crap uke sound magnificent. It sounded the same but better, if that makes any sense.

Downup Dave posted about Chuck Moore's ideas about why changes take place in new instruments. I'm neither a luthier nor a scientist and don't want to try explaining what I experienced.

Welcome back to the conversation and thank you for your input.
 
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“My limited experience indicates that some all-laminate instruments can change for the better over time and that anyone disappointed with their new boxy sounding muffled all-laminate ukulele might want to wait for about a year before replacing it. They could be be pleasantly surprised.”

I have bought and sold-on quite a few laminate Ukes since starting to play and have some sympathy for the OP’s experience. In my estimation design and build quality are the biggest determinates of what a Uke will sound like and then you have, on top of that, other less impactful factors. All laminate materials are not equal in construction details and therefore will not be effected by time and exposure to playing in the same way so comparing one laminate Uke to another model is unlikely to give defining results. As glue ages and as wood ages they might weaken, a weaker material might well vibrate more easily and I wouldn’t be surprised if the rigidity of an instrument changes very slightly over time due to such ‘natural’ ageing processes.

I’ve a couple of favourite laminate Ukes and tend to buy second hand ones too. Time seems to improve them a little but a good set-up and better strings makes a large difference. We also tend to like what we’re used to so the more we play something the better we like it and the better we get at extracting the best from it too.

TLDR: too variable, too hard to tell and if present will be minor compared to other factors - just occasionally you get a nice little bonus.
 
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I think the solution has already been identified in previous posts; whether or not a uke 'opens up' is an endless debate, but I think that most players will feel a 'difference' as they get a decent set up, and their playing improves, as they play more/practice more. I know I have developed a kind of 'feel' for my different instruments, and consequently I find that my playing has improved,with more familiarity with individual quirks and nuances of each one.
 
Graham Greenbag said:
“My limited experience indicates that some all-laminate instruments can change for the better over time and that anyone disappointed with their new boxy sounding muffled all-laminate ukulele might want to wait for about a year before replacing it. They could be be pleasantly surprised.”

I have bought and sold-on quite a few laminate Ukes since starting to play and have some sympathy for the OP’s experience. In my estimation design and build quality are the biggest determinates of what a Uke will sound like and then you have, on top of that, other less impactful factors. All laminate materials are not equal in construction details and therefore will not be effected by time and exposure to playing in the same way so comparing one laminate Uke to another model is unlikely to give defining results. As glue ages and as wood ages they might weaken, a weaker material might well vibrate more easily and I wouldn’t be surprised if the rigidity of an instrument changes very slightly over time due to such ‘natural’ ageing processes.

I’ve a couple of favourite laminate Ukes and tend to buy second hand ones too. Time seems to improve them a little but a good set-up and better strings makes a large difference. We also tend to like what we’re used to so the more we play something the better we like it and the better we get at extracting the best from it too.

TLDR: too variable, too hard to tell and if present will be minor compared to other factors - just occasionally you get a nice little bonus.
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Both instruments are as received. One was bought from Amazon. One was from Thomann. They still have the factory installed strings, nylguts in both cases, and setup has not been adjusted. Interestingly, the Aersi came with a perfect setup and with a padded gig bag and some accessories for less than $30.
 
TopDog said:
I think the solution has already been identified in previous posts; whether or not a uke 'opens up' is an endless debate, but I think that most players will feel a 'difference' as they get a decent set up, and their playing improves, as they play more/practice more. I know I have developed a kind of 'feel' for my different instruments, and consequently I find that my playing has improved,with more familiarity with individual quirks and nuances of each one.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your reply. I didn't post looking for a "solution". I was posting my experience with 2 different instruments that goes against the common wisdom about all laminate ukes, and wondering whether or not others had had a similar experience.

I take it your answer is "No I haven't experienced it" and thank you for your input.
 
Ziret said:
I thought the question referred to laminates in general improving over time, i.e., construction methods and materials are improving. I think that's an interesting question, too, but will drag this discussion in an entirely different direction. FWIW, I think they are improving, as are ukuleles in general
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It sounds like a good topic for a new thread. Would you consider starting one? I like this forum for the wide variety of topics and ideas discussed. If you start it I will participate.
 
rrieth said:
Both instruments are as received. One was bought from Amazon. One was from Thomann. They still have the factory installed strings, nylguts in both cases, and setup has not been adjusted. Interestingly, the Aersi came with a perfect setup and with a padded gig bag and some accessories for less than $30.
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One thing that I have noticed is that as strings settle over time the sound that they produce can improve somewhat, some strings take longer than others to settle. Such a change could be misleading and especially so on a little used instrument.

Many of the Ukes that have passed through my hands have had badly seating saddles. It may be that over time and use a saddle that had poor contact with the bridge embeds itself more into the bridge and then transmits energy from the string into the sound board with less losses. Such a (interface) change could be mistaken for changes in the soundboard wood. My own Ukes have always had the saddle to bridge interface problems corrected (big step forward from it too) but I still suspect additional changes elsewhere go on over time.
 
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Graham Greenbag said:
One thing that I have noticed is that as strings settle over time the sound that they produce can improve somewhat, some strings take longer than others to settle. Such a change could be misleading and especially so on a little used instrument.

Many of the Ukes that have passed through my hands have had badly seating saddles. It may be that over time and use a saddle that had poor contact with the bridge embeds itself more into the bridge and then transmits energy from the string into the sound board with less losses. Such a (interface) change could be mistaken for changes in the soundboard wood. My own Ukes have always had the saddle to bridge interface problems corrected (big step forward from it too) but I still suspect additional changes elsewhere go on over time.
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Graham. Your are only the second person in this in this thread (shoutout to downup dave) to accept what I said at face value and discuss possible explanations. These are the sorts of reply I was hoping for when I started it.

Also thank you to those who posted their personal experiences with laminated ukes.

I tried hard to be factual about what I observed confined to two specific ukes, I did not generalize about other laminate ukes or attribute what I observed to a specific cause. I also tried to avoid controversy by specifically not using the controversial term- "opening up". That sure didn't work out. I wasn't prepared for having my powers of observation and my sanity questioned, but i guess one has to expect that in a forum.

Before you posted this I was ready to stop following this thread I started, but I now plan to stick around a while in hopes there will be more well-reasoned posts we all can learn from.

Thank you
 
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