Redwood - Old growth or new growth for soundboards?

eclipsme

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I have been holding on to some redwood 2x10s that I originally used for my waterbed frame in the 70s!

2 of these boards are quarter sawn, old-growth with very dense rings - see picture. There is also another board, quarter sawn and clearly 2nd growth - much wider growth rings.

Redwood.jpg

Last year I began making ukuleles and have made 4 or 5 sopranos using the old growth for the soundboard, at about 1.5mm thick. The sound, to my somewhat naive ear, has been fantastic - loud with great overtones and long sustain.

I am getting ready to resaw another batch of soundboards. I always prefer old growth for other wood projects due mostly to beauty, but perhaps that isn't the best criterion for a uke?

All things being equal, what differences, if any, would you expect using old-growth vs new-growth redwood for the soundboard?

Thank you!
 
That's an awesome looking chunk of Redwood. I suppose I'd default to to old growth typically. But a question: is wider growth rings always indicative of old growth? Also, I made a uke with White Cedar (thuja) locally occurring, with not terribly tight grain and fairly floppy, but it has turned out to be a very nice sounding instrument.
 
Redwood can be very floppy/non stiff.

I don't care if it's old or new, as long as its stiff.
 
That's an awesome looking chunk of Redwood. I suppose I'd default to to old growth typically. But a question: is wider growth rings always indicative of old growth? Also, I made a uke with White Cedar (thuja) locally occurring, with not terribly tight grain and fairly floppy, but it has turned out to be a very nice sounding instrument.

I suppose not *always* but in general, I believe so.
(actually, I believe always, but wanted leave a bit of wiggle room...)
 
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Redwood can be very floppy/non stiff.

I don't care if it's old or new, as long as its stiff.

By stiff, do you mean resistant to bending along the grain? If so, then yes, this is quite stiff. I assume this goes along with the tight grain, but perhaps not.

This is also quite brittle across the grain, snapping easily, esp. at the thickness of the soundboard.

Thanks...
 
By stiff, do you mean resistant to bending along the grain? If so, then yes, this is quite stiff. I assume this goes along with the tight grain, but perhaps not.

This is also quite brittle across the grain, snapping easily, esp. at the thickness of the soundboard.

Thanks...

By stiff, i usually mean across the grain
 
I have some salvage redwood planks, 2"X16"X6' They have tight grain but is at 60º. Is this too far from 90º to use for a sound board?
 
I would avoid any redwood that breaks easily across the grain. In my experience a redwood top can be a little thicker. Crossgrain stiffness isn't as important on smaller instruments in my experience.
 
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By stiff, i usually mean across the grain

To be clear on terms, I am saying that if you hold the soundboard at the top and bottom and try to bend, it is quite stiff.
If you hold it along the sides, it will split along the grain.

Is this what you mean as well?

Thanks!
 
To be clear on terms, I am saying that if you hold the soundboard at the top and bottom and try to bend, it is quite stiff.
If you hold it along the sides, it will split along the grain.

Is this what you mean as well?

Thanks!

woodgrain_1.jpg

All wood is strong(er) along the grain. I don't bother to flex test in that direction.

Across the grain is pretty much all you should be worried about when buying wood.

All wood will break if you flex it across the grain enough- Redwood is more brittle then spruce, much like cedar is.

Redwood shouldn't immediately break across the grain, but it will break far quicker then other woods.
 
I have some salvage redwood planks, 2"X16"X6' They have tight grain but is at 60º. Is this too far from 90º to use for a sound board?
Reading this conversation, I'm thinking that the 60º may have an advantage with across the grain stress.
I will mill it when it is safe to venture and mingle.
 
All things being equal, what differences, if any, would you expect using old-growth vs new-growth redwood for the soundboard?

Thank you!

I live in the heart of redwood country and I think there may be some confusion. It is unlikely that your redwood boards are "old growth" meaning they were from the original uncut trees of the 19th century. Just tightness of grain does not mean the wood is "old growth" as some of the later cuts will have tight grain. As for the difference in sound depending on being "old growth" or 2nd growth I think there is no difference. It depends on the stiffness of the wood, not the age of the tree... For what it is worth, in my hands at least, redwood tops give an indifferent sound and I quit using them a while back.
 
"I'm thinking that the 60º may have an advantage with across the grain stress"

I'm inclined to agree. Definitely worth trying.

John Colter
 
View attachment 127018

All wood is strong(er) along the grain. I don't bother to flex test in that direction.

Across the grain is pretty much all you should be worried about when buying wood.

All wood will break if you flex it across the grain enough- Redwood is more brittle then spruce, much like cedar is.

Redwood shouldn't immediately break across the grain, but it will break far quicker then other woods.

Yes, thank you for clarifying.
 
"I'm thinking that the 60º may have an advantage with across the grain stress"

I'm inclined to agree. Definitely worth trying.

John Colter

Yes, worth trying, I think, but what do you think is the advantage?
 
I live in the heart of redwood country and I think there may be some confusion. It is unlikely that your redwood boards are "old growth" meaning they were from the original uncut trees of the 19th century. Just tightness of grain does not mean the wood is "old growth" as some of the later cuts will have tight grain. As for the difference in sound depending on being "old growth" or 2nd growth I think there is no difference. It depends on the stiffness of the wood, not the age of the tree... For what it is worth, in my hands at least, redwood tops give an indifferent sound and I quit using them a while back.

After much thought, I realize that I am using the wrong terms! Sorry.

It is not a question of old or young, the correct term, I believe would be 1st growth vs 2nd.

1st growth will, I believe, always have a much tighter grain structure, and that is what this board is.

So to rephrase the question, does the tighter grain of 1st growth redwood lead to a different sound, and if so, in what way?

Thanks!
 
So to rephrase the question, does the tighter grain of 1st growth redwood lead to a different sound, and if so, in what way?

Thanks!

I would say no. It is not so much the tightness of the grain but the stiffness of the wood. I believe it has been shown with Sitka spruce that the tightness or even regularity of the grain has nothing to do with how the top will sound. Tight, even grain is more of an aesthetic point and high end, expensive guitars have tight, even grain because the buyer demands it.
 
I would say no. It is not so much the tightness of the grain but the stiffness of the wood. I believe it has been shown with Sitka spruce that the tightness or even regularity of the grain has nothing to do with how the top will sound. Tight, even grain is more of an aesthetic point and high end, expensive guitars have tight, even grain because the buyer demands it.

Interesting. Since the growth rings alternate between a denser and a less dense ring, I would think that the tighter the grain, the more of the denser rings there are, the stiffer the board, all else being equal.
 
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