Changed strings and now have back bow in neck?

Jim Hanks said:

We've recently had the truss rod discussion. To summarize:
-sometimes they help
-a few ukes have them
-most do not, including many very expensive brands and customs ... ...

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"Few ukes have them" is not any proof that truss rods are not a wise additional protection.

There was a time when "few " Florida homes had hurricane clips on their roofs, and few Missouri residents were concerned when they bought lower priced housing in flood zones, and few people wanted air bags in their cars, and few motorcyclists wore helmets, and so on.

Although ukulele neck problems may be somewhat rare, the fact that it is relatively inexpensive to add a truss rod at build-time is proven by the fact that many lower priced Sino-sourced ukes already come with truss rods. Adding a truss rod will NOT prohibitively increase costs, so why are they seldom added -- even by the "expensive" brands?

The fact that expensive brands lack truss rods proves only 3 things:
(1) Those makers want to cut expenses whenever they can get away with it.
(2) Those makers CAN "get away with it" because truss rods are seldom needed -- UNLESS a buyer, who is willing to pay that much for a uke, is also savvy enough to recognize the need for periodic precise adjustments of the relief to meet changes in the uke because of humidity, aging of the wood, handling, etc.
(3) Buyers look at the uke & see whichever "K" brand name is on the headstock, and tell themselves, "This outfit is one of THE best uke makers so they know best as to whether a truss rod is or isn't needed. (Right, and Cadillacs are the best American-made car because they cost the most. )

Okay, kick me, punch me, call me dirty names -- but I honestly feel that any tenor or larger uke costing more than, say, $300, should have a 2-way truss rod, as do the Ponos & many of the Kalas.

I again call attention to THIS video by a professional luthier.

Truss rod was invention suitable for steel string guitars. They are very heavy whereas ukuleles are very light instruments. Some ukes are already weighed down by geared tuners and I would never consider a uke with a big chunk of metal in the neck. Maybe a thin carbon rod would be acceptable, and some manufacturers actually do that already. It is usually sufficient if the neck is made of two pieces of Mahogany with opposing grain to reach sufficient stability. Three or five ply necks are even stronger. Problems usually occur with single piece necks made of low quality wood.

merlin666 said:

Truss rod was invention suitable for steel string guitars. They are very heavy whereas ukuleles are very light instruments. ... ...

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Truss rods for ukes are not heavy. Check the video I linked in my previous 2 posts. I have a Pono (tenor) & a Kala (baritone) with truss rods. They are well-balanced instruments, comparable in weight & handling to my ukes with no truss rods.

As we gradually exhaust supplies of quality mahogany, rosewood, etc, truss rods actually enable use of lighter, less stiff, "green-friendly" woods.

I gotta say this thread is making me give pause to getting a mainland. However I can’t help but think that instruments by any maker at this price point have more potential than higher end instruments to develop issues. Judging by the plethora of Mainland positivity this seems to be a one off issue. There are definitely going to be trade offs at these price points. I have to admit I have been looking at Ponos after reading all of this info. Has the OP had their issue resolved?

Rosinante said:

I gotta say this thread is making me give pause to getting a mainland. ... ... I have to admit I have been looking at Ponos after reading all of this info. ... ...

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The odds are very VERY heavily in favor of your getting an excellent instrument from Mainland. As for Ponos, HERE is a great selection of those, all with free shipping.

I wish you much aloha and laki maikaʻi in finding your PERFECT ukulele.

This thread has now been rumbling on for six days. It has developed into a discussion about why ukuleles do not have truss rods, yet the OP has not yet told us if the neck really has bowed - highly unlikely in my opinion. It is easy enough to ascertain.

Ukuleles do not have truss rods because they don't need them. Bent necks are a very uncommon problem for ukuleles. Is anyone really suggesting that not fitting truss rods is a cost-saving measure? We are talking about ukuleles, here, not steel strung guitars.

John Colter

ukantor said:

Ukuleles do not have truss rods because they don't need them. ... ...

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Questionable logic. Over the years I have owned several cars with air bags. They were never needed. Would I buy a car without them? No.

ukantor said:

... Bent necks are a very uncommon problem for ukuleles. ...

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It is short-sighted to look on truss rods as having no purpose other than fixing a bent neck. Truss rods have their primary purpose in fine-tuning action and intonation.

ukantor said:

... Is anyone really suggesting that not fitting truss rods is a cost-saving measure? ...

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It costs the ukulele maker some money (NOT a whole lot) to add truss rods. Therefore, the maker saves a bit of money by not fitting truss rods.

ukantor -- I realize that your main point is that we have wandered away from OP's question, which centered mainly on a bent neck and whether strings were a causative factor. Ergo, I shall cease discussing truss rods in this thread and I apologize for the diversion.

Bellgamin, It is a false equivalence to compare truss rods with air bags in cars. You might as well include parachutes in your argument. Using your logic, we should all be wearing safety shoes. The term "truss rod" is used for an adjustable, threaded metal rod within the neck. Some people are using the term to mean a strip of stiffer material incorporated into the structure of the neck (not adjustable).

Do you know of any ukulele that uses an adjustable truss rod? Have you ever heard of a ukulele that needed to have concave curvature of the fret board fine tuned to avoid buzzing?

I repeat, ukuleles do not need adjustable truss rods. Some builders might incorporate strips of stiffer wood, or carbon fiber rods (or whatever), in the neck, but that is another matter. It could be for reasons of structural stability, or it could be believed to enhance the transmission of vibrations.

John Colter

ukantor said:

... ...Do you know of any ukulele that uses an adjustable truss rod?.. ...

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Yes, I do. Of the several ukes hanging in my home, 6 of the tenors & 2 barrys have adjustable truss rods. By the way, did you watch the video I linked in 2 previous threads?

ukantor said:

Do you know of any ukulele that uses an adjustable truss rod? Have you ever heard of a ukulele that needed to have concave curvature of the fret board fine tuned to avoid buzzing?

I repeat, ukuleles do not need adjustable truss rods. Some builders might incorporate strips of stiffer wood, or carbon fiber rods (or whatever), in the neck, but that is another matter. It could be for reasons of structural stability, or it could be believed to enhance the transmission of vibrations.

John Colter

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Pono tenors and baritones have adjustable steel truss rods under the fretboard. The adjustment nut is accessible through the soundhole.

FWIW, I agree 100% that ukuleles do not need them. And, in my limited experience, the adjustable truss rod in the Pono tenor I owned (briefly) made the entire ukulele needlessly heavy and unresponsive, as well as making it very badly balanced.
I found I could not comfortably play the uke, even while seated, without using a leather strap with the flesh side in so that it would grip my clothing. Otherwise, the uke had a very annoying habit of nose-diving.

Bellgamin, I apologize. I did not visit the video to which you posted a link (I am reluctant to click on links if I don't know what they are) but now I have. If I had seen it before, I could have learned something, and saved myself some embarrassment.

I still maintain that it is unnecessary. Fortunately, I only play sopranos and they have not been polluted by guitar influenced complications.

John Colter

ukantor said:

I still maintain that it (truss rod) is unnecessary. Fortunately, I only play sopranos and they have not been polluted by guitar influenced complications.... ...

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I enjoyed our discussion, John. I agree somewhat with you, & several other posters, that a truss rod is very very seldom *needed* in an ukulele -- where "needed" is defined solely as "correcting a bent neck due to string tension or warping due to handling or humidity". I further agree that string tension with non-steel strings (such as on a uke and a classical guitar***) is not generally sufficient to bend a neck.

Truss rods (as well as other types of neck reinforcements, such as immovable graphite rods) reportedly came into being primarily to enable slimmer necks while guarding against bending. However, it was found that adjustable truss rods carried the added benefit of enabling adjustments to relief, so as to compensate for wood changes due to humidity & aging, as well as accomodate the playing styles & idosyncracies of different players.

Because I moved to ukes from steel-stringed guitars, I came as one who was accustomed to having the relief for each of my instruments precisely adjusted so as to fit my personal playing style. I have a tech guy who takes good care of my ukes in that aspect -- IF he has a truss rod to work with.
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***As to truss rods for nylon-stringed instruments in general, & classical guitars in particular, I recommend folks read THIS somewhat protracted series of posts on a forum that specializes in classicals. I hasten to add that this link includes a series of posts by three luthiers, as well as several experienced players, and that you will find excellent arguments on BOTH side of the issue: "Good & Necessary VERSUS Bad & Useless." It's a jolly good read!!!

ANYon said:

I called the folks at Mainland who said it was a string issue (not back bow) and recommended I invert the strings (restring it so that the end in the bridge is now in the tuning peg), and they said they would send me a new set of strings (I'm guessing the Aquilas they were originally set up with, which I haven't received yet). I didn't understand how inverting the strings would help, but I tried it, and it seemed to improve the E string, though not entirely. The C string still buzzes. Maybe it needs more time to stretch? TIA.

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Weirdly enough, Baz (Barry Maz) recommends the same thing in his book, What Ukulele Players Really Want to Know. Where he discusses possible causes of buzz. He says, "Due to the nature of ukulele strings, it is possible to get a bad string in a pack and this needs to be ruled out in locating your buzz. ...another odd tip that often works, take it off [the string] and string it the other way around. This can solve problems where manufacturing has left a thin or thick spot on the string. (Some people have laughed at me when I have suggested that, but then looked rather sheepish when they found it worked.)"

Thick and thin areas in the string can also happen as the string stretches a little unevenly. I have read cautions about stretching strings out too rapidly when you first put them on. That running your finger under them, using a string stretcher, or tuning up above the proper note can cause an uneven stretch resulting in thick and thin wavy lengths in the string.

I have felt slight uneven areas in a string or two. No idea if any of this was the cause.

Truss Rods.

Many makers and luthiers use a stiffener in their necks. It's often a contrasting wood sandwiched between the major wood used for the neck. For instance a piece of walnut sandwiched between the two halves of a mahogany neck. The amalgam is stronger and more resistant to bowing than just a single piece of carved mahogany. Much like plywood is much stronger and more rigid than a single board of wood.

ukantor said:

Bellgamin, It is a false equivalence to compare truss rods with air bags in cars. You might as well include parachutes in your argument. Using your logic, we should all be wearing safety shoes. The term "truss rod" is used for an adjustable, threaded metal rod within the neck. Some people are using the term to mean a strip of stiffer material incorporated into the structure of the neck (not adjustable).

Do you know of any ukulele that uses an adjustable truss rod? Have you ever heard of a ukulele that needed to have concave curvature of the fret board fine tuned to avoid buzzing?

I repeat, ukuleles do not need adjustable truss rods. Some builders might incorporate strips of stiffer wood, or carbon fiber rods (or whatever), in the neck, but that is another matter. It could be for reasons of structural stability, or it could be believed to enhance the transmission of vibrations.

John Colter

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John, I had to use the adjustable truss rod in my 2017 Pono MGT Mango tenor.

One day, after not playing it for a month or so, I picked it up and started to strum it and I was getting quite a lot of buzz. I found that the C and E strings were the ones buzzing. I checked all of the usual culprits and couldn't find anything amiss. So, I adjusted the truss rod. Problem solved. Haven't had any buzz problems with it since.

Update:
My issue with the Mainland tenor never resolved. The new strings they sent did not fix the problem. I reached out to them for advice over a week ago and haven't heard back. I was hoping for a response at least!

I took the ukulele to another luthier who said the neck wasn't bowed. He said he couldn't be sure but thinks the buzzing (which he said was very mild) is likely due to changes in wood over time and with weather. He is going to construct a new saddle to raise the action. Hopefully, it helps since I've been pleased with the instrument otherwise

That sounds positive, ANYon. Buzzes affecting a ukulele can be difficult to diagnose. Don't be too hard on Mainland. Can't expect a manufacturer or distributor to get involved with every uke that develops a very mild mystery buzz. That's life.

Your second luthier seems to be on the right track.

Fingers crossed!

John Colter

I'm somewhat surprised by all this guessing and trying.

A ukulele is a simple mechanical device and with a logical approach any buzzing can be analyzed and corrected(if it isn't a rattle form somewhere within)

Get a "Fret rocker" and an "Action gauge", they will cost you 5 $ and check string height and uneven heights of frets. Measure the height at the nut or use the 3. fret method. Sight along the neck to see if it's straight.

If it shows that the nut or bridge is too low, just put a piece of metal under the bridge and/or the nut and try again for buzzing. You don't need a luthier to make a bridge, just to test a theory.

Try all the notes on the ukulele to see where the buzzing occurs.

Maybe the slots in the nut are V shaped, so a slight variation in string thickness, let the new strings sink a bit deeper.

Try and put back the old strings

Poul H. I would not take issue with your suggestions, but in the universe I inhabit, ukuleles can develop mysterious buzzes that are hard to locate and which don't respond to standard fixes. It can be quite a time-consuming and annoying problem.

John Colter

Since the local luthier didn't examine the uke before, you can't assume that this back bow is new.