Suggestions on buying my first Uke not from China

You have a lot of good choices, especially in the used market. Below is what bought in that price range. Look at the Marketplace here and also -
https://www.fleamarketmusic.com/marketplace/default.asp and

https://reverb.com/marketplace?query=ukulele

I talked with Mim and my local guitar shop. They both encouraged me to stay with an all wood uke even if it meant buying a Chinese instrument. They both felt buying from a small shop supported them and the U.S. economy. I'm not anti-Chinese. I have 2 Alvarez guitars that are great. I just think China knew how serious the pandemic Corona virus was from the beginning. I didn't want to use money from the U.S. stimulus to support a China enterprise. In the end we bought a Lanai with an all wood Acacia top and a Kala with solid Acacia top, back and sides. So there goes my idea of supporting U.S. companies or luthiers. Next time I'll be ready to put my money were my mouth is and buy a Hawaiian Koa.

Another vote for a Magic Fluke.

Ohana make excellent instrument for a very affordable cost as well as Romero Creations. I know a couple of luthiers here on the Forum. They build excellent quality instruments for an exceptional cost. While their prices are low, the instrument is still high quality. While some of them build ukuleles part time and it's not their major source of income. I do not want to bring them up as a model to compare prices. Although you could PM me or email me at theukulelestyle@gmail.com and I could tell you a little bit about those luthiers and while not sharing you the price, I will provide you their contact information.

Benjamin

Ron150 said:

I talked with Mim and my local guitar shop. They both encouraged me to stay with an all wood uke even if it meant buying a Chinese instrument. They both felt buying from a small shop supported them and the U.S. economy. I'm not anti-Chinese. I have 2 Alvarez guitars that are great. I just think China knew how serious the pandemic Corona virus was from the beginning. I didn't want to use money from the U.S. stimulus to support a China enterprise. In the end we bought a Lanai with an all wood Acacia top and a Kala with solid Acacia top, back and sides. So there goes my idea of supporting U.S. companies or luthiers. Next time I'll be ready to put my money were my mouth is and buy a Hawaiian Koa.

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With the current way of how the economy works, everything is linked up somewhere. For example, you purchased your Kala from a US retailer; and that Kala is a product from a US company made in China. Just some guesses on where you $ goes: 30% to Kala (US), 40% to vender (US), 10% materials (?); 20% labor & transportation (China).

clear said:

10% materials (?)

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This makes me wonder why we don't hear more about Chinese/Asian tonewoods. You'd think with such a large country and continent, there'd be lots of different types of wood to choose from. I can only think of Indian Rosewood, and I think Macassar Ebony is Indonesian. Besides the bamboo ukes talked about here some weeks ago, I can't think of any tonewoods from China off the top of my head.

You might want to look at Sound Smith as well. Most of their instruments are Asian made.

Their tenor resonator and banjolele have both gotten good reviews. They were on a par with Kalas and Ohanas in the same price range.

They have a number of new laminate and solid ukuleles.

www.soundsmithgear.com/collections/sound-smith-ukuleles

I had a laminate tenor reso and a banjolele about 3 years ago. Baz reviewed the concert reso. A little overbuilt. But sounded good. I sold them to friends. And they are still my friends—still enjoying their instruments.

Just thought I'd throw that into the mix.

snowdenn said:

This makes me wonder why we don't hear more about Chinese/Asian tonewoods. You'd think with such a large country and continent, there'd be lots of different types of wood to choose from. I can only think of Indian Rosewood, and I think Macassar Ebony is Indonesian. Besides the bamboo ukes talked about here some weeks ago, I can't think of any tonewoods from China off the top of my head.

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Many of the trees that grow in China are very similar to the ones that grow in Europe or North America. So they just take a wood that is similar and stick a label on that everyone can understand. Like when it says Mahogany it's likely from some tree that looks like Mahogany or if they say Sitka Spruce it's some kind of Spruce but not from Alaska but from the Himalaya mountains.

merlin666 said:

Many of the trees that grow in China are very similar to the ones that grow in Europe or North America. So they just take a wood that is similar and stick a label on that everyone can understand. Like when it says Mahogany it's likely from some tree that looks like Mahogany or if they say Sitka Spruce it's some kind of Spruce but not from Alaska but from the Himalaya mountains.

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Really? That seems a little shady unless it's the same species. Actually, it makes me think of all those acacia ukes that are described as koa, even though the wood's not from Hawaii.

I was recently looking at some Breedloves. They have stuff made in China and stuff made in the States. Below $500 they don't specify where the wood comes from. So maybe they're doing what you described? I don't know. But priced above $500 they actually give more information, e.g.: "Torrefied European Spruce/Picea abies/Switzerland, African Mahogany/Khaya anthotheca/Republic of Congo, Indian Laurel/Terminalia elliptica/India, Maple/Acer saccharum/Germany, etc." I did see a couple Chinese woods listed for things like headstock overlay (basswood) and bracing (spruce) on a less expensive model. But it looks like most of their pricier guitars use woods imported from all over, even if they're built in China.

I wonder if it's an image or branding issue for Chinese woods, since they're not sought after. I would imagine companies like Anuenue or Eastman would try to develop Chinese sources instead of sourcing wood elsewhere.

Bill1 said:

I doubt that wealthy Asians would tolerate fake names, they like to buy the real thing. They are not stupid. Maybe customers in the USA are dumb enough to think that fake Sitka Spruce is real, but there is a lot of face to be lost for Asians in being called out for paying a lot of money for a fake.

However, it is possible that the translations to English are not as good as they could be, and the names of the woods get mixed up in translation. To date this does not seem to cause any problems with sales figures, so why would they bother spending more on better translations?

The problem lies with the customers who really only care about price, you could call the wood "Bruce" if you like and they would buy it because it is listed on Amazon at a low price. "Look how cheap my uke was, and it has pretty wood, and in a quadruple blind test might sound just as good as a $10,000 custom". Perhaps I exaggerate a little.

While China does have some alarming politics and international policies, the Chinese people are just as capable as anyone else in building fine musical instruments. I have no doubt that there are some very good Chinese custom ukulele makers, but they never have to bother finding buyers outside of China and we never see them outside China. Also they have 4000 years of experience with local woods and know which are the best tone local tone woods and how to work the wood.

Unlike other stupid countries, the Chinese keep the best stuff in China for themselves. The ukes which sell outside China are probably nowhere near the best quality that is available to Chinese ukulele players living in China.

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I'll have to disagree. China's a big country, and any generalization isn't going to be perfect, but they've earned their reputation for creating fakes and copies. Their wealthier class is relatively new and are not yet known to by savvy consumers.

I've no doubt that the Chinese are capable of producing quality instruments. Eastman is a great example of this. But Eastman sources its woods from the same international sources that western builders use (Africa, South America, etc.). They're not using Chinese woods, which is puzzling. Maybe there are Chinese-only makers of string instruments, but I doubt it's ukuleles. More like guitars, symphonic strings, or traditional Chinese instruments.

Modern China's strength is not in innovation, but in production. Eastman creates fine string instruments, but they're not breaking new ground. Anuenue, with all its recent popularity on UU, was born in Taiwan and its flagship ukes designed by a Japanese luthier. This wasn't for name recognition, it's doubtful they could easily find a comparable, highly skilled ukulele builder in China.

The ukulele is a relatively young instrument from the West, and for all its popularity, still a very niche one. With only a small part of the population having just become familiar with the instrument recently, it seems unlikely to me that China has ukulele building luthiers with the kind of skills and craftsmanship you see elsewhere, building custom ukuleles just for themselves. It's possible that there are builders here and there, but not to the degree found even nearby in neighboring countries.

China doesn't keep the best stuff for itself. China's industry is production and supply chain. They reverse-engineer and duplicate what's designed and innovated in other parts of the world. They produce cheap copies and their consumers are satisfied with knockoffs. Or if they want quality and/or designer goods, their nouveau riche import those things from other countries. It's not that they're incapable; it's that there's little reason to learn how. Creativity and innovation are lacking in China, not because of some deficiency in the people, but because there's very little incentive to create.

snowdenn said:

I'll have to disagree. China's a big country, and any generalization isn't going to be perfect, but they've earned their reputation for creating fakes and copies. Their wealthier class is relatively new and are not yet known to by savvy consumers.

I've no doubt that the Chinese are capable of producing quality instruments. Eastman is a great example of this. But Eastman sources its woods from the same international sources that western builders use (Africa, South America, etc.). They're not using Chinese woods, which is puzzling. Maybe there are Chinese-only makers of string instruments, but I doubt it's ukuleles. More like guitars, symphonic strings, or traditional Chinese instruments.

Modern China's strength is not in innovation, but in production. Eastman creates fine string instruments, but they're not breaking new ground. Anuenue, with all its recent popularity on UU, was born in Taiwan and its flagship ukes designed by a Japanese luthier. This wasn't for name recognition, it's doubtful they could easily find a comparable, highly skilled ukulele builder in China.

The ukulele is a relatively young instrument from the West, and for all its popularity, still a very niche one. With only a small part of the population having just become familiar with the instrument recently, it seems unlikely to me that China has ukulele building luthiers with the kind of skills and craftsmanship you see elsewhere, building custom ukuleles just for themselves. It's possible that there are builders here and there, but not to the degree found even nearby in neighboring countries.

China doesn't keep the best stuff for itself. China's industry is production and supply chain. They reverse-engineer and duplicate what's designed and innovated in other parts of the world. They produce cheap copies and their consumers are satisfied with knockoffs. Or if they want quality and/or designer goods, their nouveau riche import those things from other countries. It's not that they're incapable; it's that there's little reason to learn how. Creativity and innovation are lacking in China, not because of some deficiency in the people, but because there's very little incentive to create.

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snowdenn said:

I'll have to disagree. China's a big country, and any generalization isn't going to be perfect, but they've earned their reputation for creating fakes and copies. Their wealthier class is relatively new and are not yet known to by savvy consumers.

I've no doubt that the Chinese are capable of producing quality instruments. Eastman is a great example of this. But Eastman sources its woods from the same international sources that western builders use (Africa, South America, etc.). They're not using Chinese woods, which is puzzling. Maybe there are Chinese-only makers of string instruments, but I doubt it's ukuleles. More like guitars, symphonic strings, or traditional Chinese instruments.

Modern China's strength is not in innovation, but in production. Eastman creates fine string instruments, but they're not breaking new ground. Anuenue, with all its recent popularity on UU, was born in Taiwan and its flagship ukes designed by a Japanese luthier. This wasn't for name recognition, it's doubtful they could easily find a comparable, highly skilled ukulele builder in China.

The ukulele is a relatively young instrument from the West, and for all its popularity, still a very niche one. With only a small part of the population having just become familiar with the instrument recently, it seems unlikely to me that China has ukulele building luthiers with the kind of skills and craftsmanship you see elsewhere, building custom ukuleles just for themselves. It's possible that there are builders here and there, but not to the degree found even nearby in neighboring countries.

China doesn't keep the best stuff for itself. China's industry is production and supply chain. They reverse-engineer and duplicate what's designed and innovated in other parts of the world. They produce cheap copies and their consumers are satisfied with knockoffs. Or if they want quality and/or designer goods, their nouveau riche import those things from other countries. It's not that they're incapable; it's that there's little reason to learn how. Creativity and innovation are lacking in China, not because of some deficiency in the people, but because there's very little incentive to create.

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Well, now that we have our generalizations and blanket statements out of the way, I think we should understand a few things here. The Chinese country is vast. It has over 1 Billion people in it. There are parts of the country that are very Westernized. And other parts that are still very remote and rural. Shanghai, Hong Kong, and Guangzhou are very modern. And Shenzhen is a tech center. Many Chinese were educated in the US and other Western countries and took their knowledge back to China. Sure, they are masters of re-engineering products and then improving upon them, but they are also very innovative and creative as well. Their computer industry has surpassed that of the United States in many areas. Their science and technology programs are well-funded and growing in leaps and bounds. And unlike in much of the US, education is highly prized and cherished.

Chinese tastes are becoming more cosmopolitan and worldly. From music to dance to luxury goods. Believe me, the average Chinese are much more able to spot a fake or counterfeit than most Americans. Because they are exposed to them all the time. The fact that their culture and societies are somewhat different does not make them stupid nor naive.

Sure, they probably sell their top quality goods mostly in China. Bu that's because it's a lot cheaper to sell there than it is to export goods to other countries. But id the demand isn't there, they will sell wherever they can find a market and make the best profit. I am sure, the first time Martin or Gibson tried to make a guitar they probably weren't successful in copying the Spanish designs they used as models to work from. Why would it be different in China? Pono and Ko'Aloha sent their luthiers and craftsmen to other countries to train them on their techniques and tools and plans for building instruments to their specs. Now those suppliers are building their own instruments using the knowlege they gained from their customers.

Many, many designer luxury goods are made in China. And they have a large wealthy upper and middle class with very discriminating tastes to sell to. They are even making liquors that rival the old classic Western Brands.

Saying creativity and innovation are lacking in China is an absurd statement to make. It is every bit as prevalent there, and is maybe even more so, than is still here in the US. And as science, technology and math is being disparaged and ridiculed here in this country, I fear it is we who are losing badly in innovation and creativity in industry and other areas.

Long posts about China culture, business practice etc. But do they have any demand for ukes there at all? I know many Chinese people, and they all send their kids to learn violin or piano. The ukes they build are designed for export to Europe and North America, and marketing and sales information is designed to suit the interests of these markets. This information does not necessarily reflect more about the uke than its size and if it was made of wood or plastic. Anything else can be fictional. There are absolutely no regulations about this.

Kenn2018 said:

Well, now that we have our generalizations and blanket statements out of the way, I think we should understand a few things here. The Chinese country is vast. It has over 1 Billion people in it. There are parts of the country that are very Westernized. And other parts that are still very remote and rural. Shanghai, Hong Kong, and Guangzhou are very modern. And Shenzhen is a tech center. Many Chinese were educated in the US and other Western countries and took their knowledge back to China.

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Sure.

Kenn2018 said:

Chinese tastes are becoming more cosmopolitan and worldly. From music to dance to luxury goods.

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Right, emphasis on "becoming."

Kenn2018 said:

The fact that their culture and societies are somewhat different does not make them stupid nor naive.

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It's possible that my comment could be construed as anti-China. It's not meant to be. I don't think Chinese people are stupid or naive. Far from it, much of my opinion is second hand from a number of close Chinese-American and Taiwanese-American friends.

Kenn2018 said:

Sure, they probably sell their top quality goods mostly in China. Bu that's because it's a lot cheaper to sell there than it is to export goods to other countries. But id the demand isn't there, they will sell wherever they can find a market and make the best profit. I am sure, the first time Martin or Gibson tried to make a guitar they probably weren't successful in copying the Spanish designs they used as models to work from. Why would it be different in China? Pono and Ko'Aloha sent their luthiers and craftsmen to other countries to train them on their techniques and tools and plans for building instruments to their specs. Now those suppliers are building their own instruments using the knowlege they gained from their customers.

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China is really good at mass-producing and exporting their products. It's what's industrialized their nation and given rise to their middle and upper classes. They aren't secretly making high quality goods and keeping it to themselves. They're good at distributing their goods worldwide. Yes, they're currently learning how to create their own high quality products. They've definitely made more progress in some areas, like electronics. But I'm much more skeptical that this is the case for ukuleles, a niche instrument, with a very small group of people (worldwide) who are interested in paying more than a couple hundred dollars to buy one.

Kenn2018 said:

Many, many designer luxury goods are made in China. And they have a large wealthy upper and middle class with very discriminating tastes to sell to. They are even making liquors that rival the old classic Western Brands.

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All this is relatively new. Their nouveau riche are being taught to develop tastes that are sophisticated by foreign standards, and it's only been happening a very short while. You can see the consequences of this new wealth manifest in the recent problems with Chinese tourists, which my Chinese friends are the first to bemoan and find rather embarrassing.

Kenn2018 said:

Saying creativity and innovation are lacking in China is an absurd statement to make. It is every bit as prevalent there, and is maybe even more so, than is still here in the US. And as science, technology and math is being disparaged and ridiculed here in this country, I fear it is we who are losing badly in innovation and creativity in industry and other areas.

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Perhaps it would be fairer for me to say they still have a ways to go in becoming more creative and innovative. To be clear, I don't think I've said anything comparing China to America, but I share your fears about the decline in the U.S.

No doubt China is growing in leaps and bounds. And they're getting better at innovation. But they're not leading yet. They're still primarily looked to for cheap labor and mass-production. "Made in China" isn't as bad as it used to be, but it's still not synonymous with high quality. Of course high quality Chinese products exist. But we always have to explain that it's high quality even though it's made in China. People don't just assume Chinese-made is high quality the way we might for things made in Japan or Germany or America. Sure, we can find terrible products made in Japan, Germany, or the U.S. But we generally don't say "made in Germany" to denote low quality. Likewise we don't say "made in China" to denote high quality. Often, high quality products from China will also say that they were designed by Europeans or Americans or in other parts of Asia.

You're right though, that China's huge and I'm just making generalizations. But I guess I think they're more accurate than not. I'm certainly not trying to bash China or looking for argument. I just don't think China's secretly producing high end ukes and keeping it to themselves.

Do it right. Buy a kit from stewart mcdonald and build your own. Totally American crafted and exactly to your build spec.