Surprised by Laminate

I took some time this afternoon to run through the same tune using seven different Concert Ukes. I was trying to judge the sound qualities of the instruments. I was surprised at the results.

What surprised me was how good the laminates in my collection sounded. I'll say right now that my solid Koa Kamaka sounded the best. But beyond that, it was really close. The Kala with a solid spruce top and laminate body scored high. But, the all laminate Mango Leolani sounded even better. And that shocked me. Its very light weight for a laminate, and the body resonates nicely when thumped. And the tone quality is right up there with the solid Ukes costing two and three times as much. I really wouldn't hesitate to take the Leolani anywhere and perform with it. I just thought I'd share this startling result with y'all.

Yeah I picked up a very cheap long neck soprano HanoHano, which is a brand related to Leolani, and it sounds almost as nice as my KoAloha concert that cost ten times as much.

I'm not going to say that my laminate concert sounds as good tonally as my all-solid tenor, but it's heaps more fun to play! I travel with it constantly as I'm less worried about it, and it's just got a great jangle to it. I only have the 2 ukes, but if I had to choose only one right now, that would be the one and I'd get rid of the tenor that cost 3-4x as much. (Not that I don't like my tenor. It sounds good, has a fuller tone, and could probably do with a better setup, but that laminate concert is just FUN!)

I have a laminate Kiwaya and a laminate Martin that sound better than my all-solid Kala. Both of these laminate ukes are lightweight and very resonant.

I have bought several very inexpensive sopranos and one tenor, with bodies made from High Pressure Laminate - i.e. not traditional three ply wood. They all sounded acceptably decent (and a couple were better than that) and HPL looks very much like the wood it is pretending to be. As knock-about instruments, they can be very good indeed.

John Colter

I recently got a solid spruce top laminate walnut back and sides Flight Sophia concert and I was really surprised how good it sounded. I've previously had a very similar solid spruce top Kala which sounded extremely one-dimensional and overly bright, but the Flight has much more of a balanced sound and some depth. I'm honestly not sure whether it's the type of laminate wood used or the building quality that makes the difference (probably both) but I'm seriously impressed. I also had a Kiwaya KS-5 all laminate koa soprano and I'm certain I wouldn't have been able to tell it apart from my KTS-7 on a blind test. That thing was seriously well built.

As Baz has said, a high quality laminate will usually outperform a poor quality solid ukulele.

Kiwaya brand ukes are frequently used as a prime examples of very high-quality laminates that often out performs similarly priced solids.

I don't have much experience with laminates other than my 1st ukulele Fender Nohea tenor that sounded rather boxy. It was built like a tank.

Kenn2018 said:

Kiwaya brand ukes are frequently used as a prime examples of very high-quality laminates that often out performs similarly priced solids.

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Yep, Kiwaya is the most common example but Flight recently released the Hawaiian-made laminate sopranos made from koa and mahogany. Those basically rivaled the Kiwaya models at a similar price. I'm guessing that if the uke is made by these revered Hawaiian or Japanese luthiers it will sound good regardless of the materials used. I bet those guys could make a quality uke out of cardboard.

I had to go back and check but David Ingalls of Ono Ukulele talked about laminates quite a bit on The Ukulele Review Podcast last year. The discussion is early on, starting at 4:30 or so:

Episode 19.48

I sometimes like the sound of laminates better than some solid wood ukes too. It just depends on the particular uke and my mood.

jer said:

I sometimes like the sound of laminates better than some solid wood ukes too. It just depends on the particular uke and my mood.

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I understand that it depends on your mood, but I'm curious which laminates you have! I am certainly finding in my YT listening that I am frequently drawn to laminate ukes, not because I'm shopping for laminates, but just that those are the videos that make me stop and look up which uke they're using. Now I'm looking for all the real-world insight into this that I can get.

TimWilson said:

I understand that it depends on your mood, but I'm curious which laminates you have! I am certainly finding in my YT listening that I am frequently drawn to laminate ukes, not because I'm shopping for laminates, but just that those are the videos that make me stop and look up which uke they're using. Now I'm looking for all the real-world insight into this that I can get.

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Hi Tim.
I'm not one to keep a lot of ukes around. Often I have just one then sell it or pass it on and get another. I've mostly bought inexpensive ukes over the past few years. I have had some higher end stuff though in the past. I'll offer up some thoughts...

I will mention Kala as an example for one thing. I've played on some of their lower end mahogany laminates and also the laminate ebony which costs more. You are really paying for the look of the wood on those exotic wood laminates. The outer layer is VERY, very thin. It's not going to make any difference in tone. I thought they sounded sort of neutral with some warmth. They don't have the volume or zing of a solid wood. That often works very well for me. I don't need volume and like a warmer sound often...and to my ears laminates can be less harsh sometimes.

I have had a Kiwaya laminate soprano (KS1 I think) that is very thin laminate. Many here rave about them. It's more expensive than something like the Kala and is made in Japan. I found it to be a nice sounding instrument too. Most will put it well above something like a Kala laminate. I will say the construction and build quality was certainly better. It is built lighter. Not all laminates are created equal for sure. I could've been fine with either as far as sound goes if needed, but the edge would go to the Kiwaya.

I'm a fan of the Flight TUS35 ukes that go for $50. They are plastic with laminate wood top and sound better than I would've guessed. I think they're one of the best deals going... I just don't know how well the frets hold up to years of play...but at $50...maybe not a concern.
Along those lines, if you're open to alternative materials I think the Enya Nova (carbon fiber mixed with plastic) and the Outdoor Ukuleles are both quite nice. I enjoyed playing on those.

I'm a fan of the Enya instruments I've played. I have owned and played on their HPL laminate. It wasn't loud, but had a nice sound and the factory setup was very good. That is rare on a factory uke. The price was great for all included too. I also have a guitar from them that is quite nice for what it is. It's also made of their HPL...which originally was used by Martin Guitars.

I haven't played an all laminate Ohana but would expect those to be nice based on my experience with their solid top with laminate back and sides ukes.

I think there are probably a lot of ukes I haven't played that I'd be fine with sound-wise. Playability and comfort are huge for me..so it's not just about sound. Now, my first stop for uke shopping is Mim's Ukes, unless she doesn't have what I'm looking for. She does a great setup and has excellent service. I do setup work too, but it's nice to not have to.

If you don't know of gotaukulele I would recommend looking that up. Baz does some great reviews in writing and on youtube of quite a few models. I won't say I always agree with him, as we all have our own opinions but I do agree with him a good deal and think he's an excellent resource. He is also a member here on UU.

I think you have to keep in mind that what you hear in person and what you hear on youtube aren't always the same though. Some people, like Cory from HMS, can make any uke sound good in demos...because he's a fantastic player with great touch. He doesn't overplay the uke to where it distorts, etc.
Ultimately it's all about your ears and preferences.

I hope you find some ukes that you love.
That's my more than 2 cents.

About 7 years ago when I first started playing uke, I bought directly from China via AliExpress, a two hole uke for $110 that I'm pretty sure is all laminate and to this day it sounds very good.

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This is Michael Kohan in Los Angeles, Beverly Grove near the Beverly Center
9 tenor cutaway ukes, 4 acoustic bass ukes, 12 solid body bass ukes, 14 mini electric bass guitars (Total: 39)

• Donate to The Ukulele Kids Club, they provide ukuleles to children in hospital music therapy programs. www.theukc.org
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pmorey said:

I had to go back and check but David Ingalls of Ono Ukulele talked about laminates quite a bit on The Ukulele Review Podcast last year. The discussion is early on, starting at 4:30 or so:

Episode 19.48

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Yep. It was also on the Ono Ukulele website in the blog section.

http://onoukes.com/blog

The great Laminate debate has been held here before and I hope that it will be held here again, it’s good to talk and share experiences with new and old friends.

I’ve a small assortment of laminate Ukes and have had some cheaper sold ones too. The variation in sound bang per buck is certainly there but also the limitation of just not spending enough to get something you’d want to play - fortunately the cost threshold to a decent enough instrument is quite low (say £70 for new if you buy carefully). Bling costs and whilst it might look attractive the Uke underneath it might or might not live up to the implied enhancements of sound. I’ve been disappointed by bling and whilst that experience isn’t necessarily a perfect guide bling costs money and might distract from how the Uke actually plays and sounds like. What’s bling? IMHO bling is anything beyond a plain functional finish and plain functional binding.

Solid wood instruments are only that (solid rather than laminate) and at the lower price levels they’re not necessarily any better built or sounding than similarly and even lower priced laminates. Solid wood isn’t magically better than laminate and IMHO there’s a lot of hype about solid wood, to get the improvement that solid can give you you have to couple it with individually craftsman built and that really ramps the price up. I’ve one sold wood Uke now and had a different one in the past, both are thick wood and unbraced, both are from reputable companies and neither are that great sounding compared to my laminates; to get the best out of sold wood it needs to be thin and braced by a craftsman. So beware that unless expertly thinned and braced by a craftsman (which costs) solid really does not equal better than laminate. I recall the experience of a friend who ended up with a £500 solid wood Uke. After having tried a whole bunch of Ukes, and having had an expert play them too to hear what the Ukes sounded like, the friend concluded that the only why to conclusively buy something noticeably better than their (£80) laminate was to spend five plus times more.

To me the situation is counter intuitive (dearer is not always better) and full of ‘smoke and mirrors’, there are some reasonable guides but there is plenty of ‘mis-information’ floating about and being deliberately supplied to buyers too. How good a Uke sounds isn’t that closely linked to what it cost or what it is made off and hence some laminates give surprisingly good results whilst other laminates and solids too disappoint.

Without setting off intending it to be so my way of selecting the good one’s and keepers seems to be to buy likely candidates second hand, set them up well (that makes an enormous difference) and critically compare against a particular one that I already have. I then sell the weaker of my small herd and, over time, repeat the process. My ‘gold standard’ comparison Uke (a laminate) wasn’t expensive but did respond very well to a good setup, good strings and replacement nut and saddle; that Uke sounds and plays better than others (including solid wood ones) costing three times its price - the same string type (Martin 600) is normally used in my comparison tests.

I find this discussion very interesting - but - what do we mean by a "laminate"? It can mean material produced from thin layers of wood (usually three layers) of equal thickness, with the grain of the inner layer at ninety degrees to the outer two layers. This produces a strong, stable sheet of wood (plywood) which has clear advantages (in many applications) over solid sheet wood of the same thickness.

I have a sixteen year old Mahalo soprano made from standard three ply. I keep it for sentimental reasons, and because it still plays well, sounds OK and is very rugged.

I have had ukes made from plywood which consisted of a thicker core with two outer layers of very thin veneer. There have been other variations on the layered wood theme.

Then there are materials referred to as high pressure laminates (HPL) which are completely different from the above. I've no doubt there are various types of HPL. Many of them contain plant fibres, and the outer surfaces can be finished to give a very convincing wood grain appearance.

We tend to refer to anything, which is not solid wood or plastic, as "laminate" but not all laminates are the same. It would be helpful if manufacturers and sellers would specify what material is used, but they are only interested in telling us which wood grain it simulates.

So, HPL is a bit of a mystery. Generally, it is very strong and stable, impressively thin, and can be made into very decent musical instruments. Also, the finished product looks exactly like wood - even under close scrutiny.

"Laminate" is a very loose term and covers a wide range of stuff.

John Colter

I say this again, because I've said it here before, I have three ukes, one cheap Makala, A solid mahogany Mainland and an Ohana solid cedar top solid myrtle sides and back. I can't say one of them sounds best. They all three sound good in their own voice none sounding better or worse than the others. That includes the $65 Makala laminate. There is nothing wrong with it at all.

ukantor said:

I find this discussion very interesting - but - what do we mean by a "laminate"? It can mean material produced from thin layers of wood (usually three layers) of equal thickness, with the grain of the inner layer at ninety degrees to the outer two layers. This produces a strong, stable sheet of wood (plywood) which has clear advantages (in many applications) over solid sheet wood of the same thickness.

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Yeah, what he said. VegasGeorge was talking about a true laminate (plywood), but a couple of the comments here made me think others were writing about HPL ukes and not true wood laminates). Both have their own "sound". I have a soprano HPL that is great, and a concert that is good, both from Enya. My fluke (my first uke) is a plywood top, and I've heard some very cheap plywood ukes made from linden/basswood that surprised me and could easily give short term gratification to my uas.

And ... VegasGeorge now has me interested in a laminate mango Leolani.

Ukecaster said:

Does anyone make HPL tenors? I see mostly sopranos.

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Bonanza makes Soprano - Baritone sizes in a variety of shapes. Pete’s HPL choices revel in pattern availability without trying to pretend to be wood. I like Tutti Frutti and Mint Retro https://www.bonanzaukuleles.com/category-s/126.htm

Enya’s X1 series uses HPL in Soprano through Tenor sizes. They use various wood patterns that hit the uncanny valley for me. I just can’t quite manage to fall in love with mine

to me, HPL is HPL and laminate is wood plywood...albeit sometimes very good plywood

enya makes HPL tenors