Confused about tension of fluorocarbon strings...

How comes that some brands (like, for example, Worth and Oasis) offer the same unique fluorocarbon string set for either soprano, concert or tenor ? How can a string work properly for a 13 inch scale and a 17 inch scale? I guess that such strings will have high tension on a soprano and low tension on a tenor. To add confusion: D'Addario, instead, offer a fluorocarbon set for soprano and concert, and a different fluorocarbon set for tenor. But...the strings diameter is exactly the same on both sets.
Can someone help to me to understand? Thanks.

String tension is dictated by either diameter, larger is higher tension or the actual compound. If you put a tenor gauge string, like Oasis on a shorter scale concert the tension is less, on a shorter scale soprano the tension is less again. The longer the scale, say tenor compared to soprano the more the strings need to be stretched to get them up to pitch. So you stretch a string set more on a tenor which creates more tension. With the very same string set on a soprano the tension is lower

How can a string work properly for a 13 inch scale and a 17 inch scale? I guess that such strings will have high tension on a soprano and low tension on a tenor.

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Same reason why guitars come in various scale lengths, yet all use the same strings that come in different tension ratings.

Likewise for ukulele, you should be able to use the same strings for Soprano, Concert and Tenor.
The resulting tension will be a bit different due to the scale length.

With the same set of strings, the tension will be less on shorter scale and more on longer scale.
Hence, the strings would be looser on a soprano and tighter on a tenor.

The trebles I use on my long scale Ramirez classical (664mm) are the same as the ones on my Kala Elite tenor (429mm)! Once I noticed the same basic string diameters were used on multiple instruments my life became a wee bit easier. Strings are strings and just as long as they're the right tension I use many of the same strings on my classical guitars, guitarleles and ukuleles.

Hi all!

Take a look at the "Ultimate Florocarbon Comparison Chart" Posted by Anthroterra on 07-08-2020 for some recent string size data... It might illuminated the discussion a bit...

Bill

gochugogi said:

The trebles I use on my long scale Ramirez classical (664mm) are the same as the ones on my Kala Elite tenor (429mm)! Once I noticed the same basic string diameters were used on multiple instruments my life became a wee bit easier. Strings are strings and just as long as they're the right tension I use many of the same strings on my classical guitars, guitarleles and ukuleles.

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I find it a highly convenient coincidence that the 4th-1st of classical guitar (DGBE) pretty much translates to the 4th-1st (GCEA) on soprano/concert/tenor ukuleles for low-G tuning. If you want high-G, just use the 1st string again (E) to tune up to (A) on ukulele.

Most guitaleles appear to just use regular classical guitar strings to tune up ADGCEA too.

Same logic applies to steel string electric guitars/ukuleles.

gerardo1000 said:

How comes that some brands (like, for example, Worth and Oasis) offer the same unique fluorocarbon string set for either soprano, concert or tenor ? How can a string work properly for a 13 inch scale and a 17 inch scale? I guess that such strings will have high tension on a soprano and low tension on a tenor. To add confusion: D'Addario, instead, offer a fluorocarbon set for soprano and concert, and a different fluorocarbon set for tenor. But...the strings diameter is exactly the same on both sets.
Can someone help to me to understand? Thanks.

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You have two questions. But first the the three line review I always give myself on this:

Frequency is:
inversely proportional to string length -> shorter string means higher pitch
proportional to square root of string tension -> higher tension means higher pitch
inversely proportional to square root of string density -> thinner string means higher pitch

So if you want the same note with the same string with the same tension on a tenor and soprano, you will be shortening the length of the string by about 13/17ths on the soprano which means it will have a higher pitch. So you must LOWER THE TENSION ON THE SOPRANO TO GET THE SAME NOTE AS THE TENOR.

Another way of looking at the above is to take a tenor G string and fret at the 5th fret which makes the length about the 13 inches, which is the length of a soprano, and gives the higher note (C) that will only become a G by decreasing the tension on the string.

Regarding D'Addario, since they make their own strings, I would guess they can change the density while still keeping the diameter about the same. That's just a guess on my part.

Finally, In the past, I've had some of the same thoughts as you, but with Tenor and Concert ukes using the same strings. However, I don't think about it much anymore because I noticed that Kamaka and LaBella use the same diameter string for their A and high G strings. I then realized that the G at the second fret (an A note) on a tenor is about a Concert length, and I can't tell much difference in the tension between the G string and the A string on the tenor when playing.

I hope this helps and the last paragraph isn't too confusing.

That's why ukes are of different size have different construction. Soprano ukes have very light or no bracing at all while tenor ukes have more substantial bracing and sometimes even a rod in the neck to support potential higher tension. Higher tension is also one of the reasons why longer instruments are often louder and sound better.

Martin pushed this further making their tenor strings thicker for even more tension.

Regarding Martin strings, the low tension of their new polygut strings is remarkable, even though they are slightly thicker than their F/C strings. I wonder if they can still sound decent with such low tension. Here are the data for comparison:

To complicate things even more, there can be a pretty substantial difference in the actual tension on a string versus the perceived "tension" a player thinks is there, when they fret a note.

When you fret a string by pushing it down to the fretboard, you're stretching it a little bit along it's length. The "stretch" you feel is based on both the scale length and the distance you displace the string. Imagine you were to set up two instruments - a soprano and a tenor - with the same actual string tension (ignoring tuning for now), and the same action at the 12th. Then, you fret both at the 12th fret. The soprano, with it's shorter scale length, requires you to displace the string at a greater angle (relative to it's resting position) so the soprano would feel "tighter" because it takes more force to displace the string on the shorter scale length.

Take this to an extreme - put the same string material on a double bass and (attempt to!) tune it to the same pitch. It would be under much higher tension, but because it was so long, it would "feel" floppy.

Now, take those two instruments and tune them both correctly. Even though the tenor's strings are ultimately at a higher tension, the effect of scale length on the soprano masks that difference.

Because of this sensation, most people don't perceive that - when tuned to the same note - the tenor actually has strings under higher tension.

Interesting information.

We ukulele players tend to have the problem with sopranoes in that the strings are too floppy. Strings being less in tension does not mean that playing with too high nut action makes it easier for our fingertips, it will always hurt if not used to. Just the less tension makes us easier to bend strings erroneously. And then a little out of pitch, nothing too drastic as it is a little strumming device as all our ukes basically are.

With larger scales we get more tension and comfort in that we don't play so easy bending. Of course it is all a technique thing in the first place.

I find myself a classical guitar scale a bit too much for my rather short fingers for even ukulele chord like Fm 1013, not sure if a baritone too as the scale is shorter. I will have to keep my thumb behind the neck to play it it in classical guitar turned to "baritone". Of course it is easy manageable, because it rests on my lap. Even easier with classical guitar position. This is for playing ukulele without a strap. We then have our thumbs not behind the neck, except in barre chords. but pointing out

I don't have a tenor, but I think I would be just fine with it's scale. Just don't own one.

merlin666 said:

Regarding Martin strings, the low tension of their new polygut strings is remarkable, even though they are slightly thicker than their F/C strings. I wonder if they can still sound decent with such low tension. Here are the data for comparison:

F/C	A	E	C	G	Tension	Model
Soprano/Concert	.0191	.0251	.0340	.0220	35.4	M600
Tenor	.0220	.0284	.0340	.0251	55.3	M620
Polygut	A	E	C	G	Tension	Model
Soprano	.0220	.0275	.0310	.0228	26.4	M605
Concert	.0228	.0287	.0318	.0236	31.4	M610
Tenor	.0236	.0295	.0326	.0244	37.1	M625

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The soprano polygut strings sound good, but they will not be everyones cup of tea. The a-string in particular does feel somewhat low tension but not ridiculously so. They are spanky and jangly and I believe that is what Martin was going for. That said, I've never been in love with how low the tension is on them and recently put a set of the M625s on a soprano. I liked those more. They still sounded like Martin Polygut strings (which as I understand are just Aquila Carbon Blacks repackaged) and still had plenty of brightness and bark, but were definitly fuller, louder, and warmer than the ones marketed for sopranos. It was clear that they were driving the top harder. I liked them better but could see others liking the soprano ones better if that was the sound they were going for.