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Was doing my own research on koa and came across terminologies that caused me to be more confused as different sources would explain them differently so I decided to come to you for help. Here goes.

What makes a koa:

1. 5A?
2. Master grade?
3. Fiddleback?
4. Figured?
5. Flamed?
6. Curly?
7. (Any other terminology I missed)?

Am I right that besides Big Island being where most of the koa comes from, some koa also comes from Maui? Is there a difference between these two koas?

I’d appreciate any feedback or info as I’m really interested to learn more. Thanks everyone.
 
Flame looks like stripes. Quilted wood looks kind of like waves. Master grade and 5A just means that it’s highly figured (and usually expensive).

All actual koa is grown in the state of HI, not necessarily just the island of Hawaii. A relative of koa is acacia and that grows in a bunch of places around the world.
 
Yes, Deluxe $, Premium $$, Master Grade $$$ - close your eyes and they all sound the same :)
 
Counter said:
Yes, Deluxe $, Premium $$, Master Grade $$$ - close your eyes and they all sound the same :)
Click to expand...

I've seen some people claim that more premium looking koa also has better sound while others say that a more straight grained koa sounds better. Personally, I have no idea, and I probably couldn't tell the difference at all anyway. *shrug*
 
Dohle said:
I've seen some people claim that more premium looking koa also has better sound while others say that a more straight grained koa sounds better. Personally, I have no idea, and I probably couldn't tell the difference at all anyway. *shrug*
Click to expand...


Oh, I'm a sucker for beautiful Koa and willing to pay more for it but I am under no illusions about any difference in sound. Better grade Koa can sometimes come with upgraded bracing compared to a standard issue model but as a tonewood alone I would defy anyone to tell the difference.
 
These are all various terms to describe the appearance of the wood. Historically the more figured wood was considered lower quality and often rejected for building instruments. But fashions change. I would not be willing to pay more for wood that someone else considers prettier.
 
For me the different labels refer to the look of the wood, not necessarily the sound. Six years ago I bought a Kala tenor with solid cedar top and laminate acacia body for $380. I played a couple of the "K" $1100+ ukes at the same time with beautiful figured koa. In my opinion, those ukes did not sound three times better than then the Kala, in fact, I really didn't hear a major difference at all. That pretty much convinced me that it's about look rather than sound, not that there's anything wrong with that, those ukes were definitely beautiful.

It reminds of audiophiles who say they hear a major difference in sound between digital and analog. My younger brother is one and designed his own high end audio equipment and opened a company. He put together a gigantic audio system for his home in a separate sound insulated room with 8 foot tall speakers that each had 10 tweeters, 6 midrange, plus two separate sub woofers, with 6 preamps and amps for each speaker and each segment of the speakers. It took up half the room and cost him about $10,000 forty years ago.

He had one chair set in a measured place because that's where the sweet spot was. I consider myself to have a good ear, but no matter what he played, I could not hear a major difference in sound quality from analog compared to digital. Yes, he could make it really loud and it wouldn't distort, the bass would resinate and vibrate in your chest, but that was the same with either analog or digital.

This is Michael Kohan in Los Angeles, Beverly Grove near the Beverly Center
9 tenor cutaway ukes, 4 acoustic bass ukes, 12 solid body bass ukes, 14 mini electric bass guitars (Total: 39)

• Donate to The Ukulele Kids Club, they provide ukuleles to children in hospital music therapy programs. www.theukc.org
• Member The CC Strummers: YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/CCStrummers/video, Facebook: www.facebook.com/TheCCStrummers
 
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I had three thoughts. Law of diminishing returns. Yes, you can continue to pay more, but the correlation between improvement diminishes the more expensive you get. $500 vs. $50 is a big difference! $1000 vs. 500, not as much. $3000 vs. $1000, probably less.

Second, I think of it like buying a car. Some people really appreciate that the car accelerates to 60 in 3.5 seconds, vs. 5.7 seconds vs. 7.9 seconds. Others, just want to go from point A to B. If you have the means, I'm o.k. with it. It's your money, spend it how you want.

My final thought is if it inspires you to pick it up and enjoy it (because it's beautiful to look at or hear), then it's worth it.

Have a great week everyone


kohanmike said:
For me the different labels refer to the look of the wood, not necessarily the sound. Six years ago I bought a Kala tenor with solid cedar top and laminate acacia body for $380. I played a couple of the "K" $1100+ ukes at the same time with beautiful figured koa. In my opinion, those ukes did not sound three times better than then the Kala, in fact, I really didn't hear a major difference at all. That pretty much convinced me that it's about look rather than sound, not that there's anything wrong with that, those ukes were definitely beautiful.

It reminds of audiophiles who say they hear a major difference in sound between digital and analog. My younger brother is one and designed his own high end audio equipment and opened a company. He put together a gigantic audio system for his home in a separate sound insulated room with 8 foot tall speakers that each had 10 tweeters, 6 midrange, plus two separate sub woofers, with 6 preamps and amps for each speaker and each segment of the speakers. It took up half the room and cost him about $10,000 forty years ago.

He had one chair set in a measured place because that's where the sweet spot was. I consider myself to have a good ear, but no matter what he played, I could not hear a major difference in sound quality from analog compared to digital. Yes, he could make it really loud and it wouldn't distort, the bass would resinate and vibrate in your chest, but that was the same with either analog or digital.

This is Michael Kohan in Los Angeles, Beverly Grove near the Beverly Center
9 tenor cutaway ukes, 4 acoustic bass ukes, 12 solid body bass ukes, 14 mini electric bass guitars (Total: 39)

• Donate to The Ukulele Kids Club, they provide ukuleles to children in hospital music therapy programs. www.theukc.org
• Member The CC Strummers: YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/CCStrummers/video, Facebook: www.facebook.com/TheCCStrummers
Click to expand...
 
Sound is the most important characteristic of purchasing an ukulele, but you can be paying much more (usually willingly) for other features. One example is tuners. You want Gotoh Planetary tuners instead of friction, then pay a little more. You like the finish of a higher end gloss over a satin, pay a little more. Choose a koa ukulele instead of a mahogany, pay more. Soundhole? Radiused fretboard? Added fret markers?... etc. So get all the features on an ukulele and it usually costs more than without the features. And often, the more you pay, the slightly better the feel and the sound.

Once you establish a base price for an item, you can rarely establish a direct correlation between cost and performance. Something costing twice as much is not twice as good. But for many, the different items you are paying for is well worth it.

Related, purchasing a first ukulele is one of the few areas where there is so much advice to purchase really cheap in case you do not like playing it (and who does not?). In other areas, the advice is to purchase quality. I like the advice to purchase the best one you could afford as you will play it more. I did this early as I decided if I had to listen to myself play every day, I wanted the uke to sound its best while my playing improved. So after two months, I jumped from a $100 "beginner" one to a KoAloha costing ten times more. It does not sound ten times better, but I enjoy playing and hearing it at least ten times more.
 
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ghostrdr said:
I had three thoughts. Law of diminishing returns. Yes, you can continue to pay more, but the correlation between improvement diminishes the more expensive you get. $500 vs. $50 is a big difference! $1000 vs. 500, not as much. $3000 vs. $1000, probably less.
Click to expand...

Agreed, though it's definitely made more complicated by different builders. I have a personal threshold at roughly around $1000 give or take a couple hundred, after which I'm a lot less confident that I can hear improvements in sound quality. There are exceptions, but after a certain point, the diminishing returns are small enough that I can't tell. And there are definitely some sub $800 instruments that sound better than their more expensive counterparts. But as the quality increases, I feel like I'm hearing differences rather than improvements in sound. Although ukes seem to have been rising in price, so maybe my threshold is out of date.

It's possible that I'm totally overestimating the abilities of my ear, but in an effort to create a sane approach to ukulele buying, I decided to set a price threshold after which I admit it's difficult for me to hear gains in sound quality. After that point, spending any more is pretty much for reasons other than sound.

As for koa (and other tonewoods), everyone seems to agree the biggest determining factor in sound quality is the build/construction. Then it's the use of different tonewoods. But for specific tonewoods, variation in appearance is said to make no discernible difference in sound, despite sometimes commanding much higher prices, as in the case with different grades of koa.

So the upshot is, an inexpensive change of strings would make a bigger difference to sound than if you could upgrade the wood to have more figuring or be rated as a higher grade, which would be a costly difference.
 
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rainbow21 said:
It does not sound ten times better, but I enjoy playing and hearing it at least ten times more.
Click to expand...

I think this is the best explanation I've heard for why one might want to pay more.
 
If design and craftsmanship are equal, I'm a wee bit partial to the fat mid rich tone of mahogany over the somewhat brighter timbres common to koa. But, yeah, most mahogany is really plain albeit there are rare flamed pieces. It's hard to beat a choice cut of curly koa as eye candy.
 
I can say from experience, my simple solid top straight grain koa uke sounds great!
 
L lurk way more than I post but as I have done a bunch of reading on Koa I thought I would add my two cents. One of the things I found was an article in the Hawaiian Airlines magazine that might be of interest, https://hanahou.com/20.1/return-of-the-warrior. It talks about Koa in general as well as its use in making instruments.

From what I understand Koa is a tricky wood. It's density and stiffness can vary quite a bit. Each piece of wood may need to be treated differently to make a good sounding instrument. Companies that built instruments to a uniform standard say for the thickness of top and back may not consistently produce the best sounding Koa ukes or guitars. Playing before you buy or buying from a company know for their Koa instruments is probably the best approach. Also I didn't find anything that suggested you tell how good a Koa instrument will sound based on how it looks.

Slightly off topic but a few folks have mentioned that it can be hard to hear the difference between instruments. I do believe that we need to train our senses by exposing them to lots of different samples. I got into wine a few years ago and it took me a while to be able to develop my sense of taste so I could tell the difference between similar wines. I think it is the same with the sound of instruments. The more different ukes you can play the easier it will be hear differences. That's not to say law of diminishing returns isn't a thing. The same might be true for tuning. You will likely become more aware if you are slightly out of tune the more you play
 
Thank you everyone for your comments. I have loved reading and learning from all of you. I would love to read some more if you have anything else to shared about the koa.

jrdavies said:
L lurk way more than I post but as I have done a bunch of reading on Koa I thought I would add my two cents. One of the things I found was an article in the Hawaiian Airlines magazine that might be of interest, https://hanahou.com/20.1/return-of-the-warrior. It talks about Koa in general as well as its use in making instruments.

From what I understand Koa is a tricky wood. It's density and stiffness can vary quite a bit. Each piece of wood may need to be treated differently to make a good sounding instrument. Companies that built instruments to a uniform standard say for the thickness of top and back may not consistently produce the best sounding Koa ukes or guitars. Playing before you buy or buying from a company know for their Koa instruments is probably the best approach. Also I didn't find anything that suggested you tell how good a Koa instrument will sound based on how it looks.

Slightly off topic but a few folks have mentioned that it can be hard to hear the difference between instruments. I do believe that we need to train our senses by exposing them to lots of different samples. I got into wine a few years ago and it took me a while to be able to develop my sense of taste so I could tell the difference between similar wines. I think it is the same with the sound of instruments. The more different ukes you can play the easier it will be hear differences. That's not to say law of diminishing returns isn't a thing. The same might be true for tuning. You will likely become more aware if you are slightly out of tune the more you play
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for adding your comment and especially sharing the article with me. I feel like I have come to love this very special wood even more after getting to know it better. Please share more with me if you come across any other material.
 
I think it was Flight ukes that brought luthiers from Japan to Hawaii to make some “made in Hawaii” ukuleles at a better price. Well they made some with Koa and some with mahogany. Then covid hit and they went back home. So a batch of each made its way to a big German online Uke seller. Any way the proprietor gave a little sales pitch and then a sound sample of each. I could hear the difference between the mahogany and Koa easily. I preferred the Koa sound, it seemed to have a little more sparkle. So I sent them a email because I wanted to buy one. Well guess what, other people liked the Koa better as well as they were sold out...but he still had several of the mahogany ukes left. I have since found a used Komaka soprano gold label. Amazing sound. I love Koa, the sound reminds me of “Hawaiian” music of the 50s and 60s.
 
At one time I had three Kanile'a K1-T tenors. They were made within five years of one another. And I believe all had the same bracing in them. One was a blonde Koa, One is a beautiful flame "Premium" Koa, and the third was an attractive standard Koa with a nice grain. All three were strung with Living Waters fluorocarbons. They all had the "koa sound." But each sounded different. One was a little brighter, one was a little more bass heavy, one was in between, but warmer sounding. I can't draw any conclusions about the woods because I don't have enough samples to compare.

Kanile'a K-1T.jpg Front full.jpg

All were very nice to play and sounded great.

At present, I own the Blonde and the flame. Both are strung Low-G.
 
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Wow, beautiful koa ukes! I love the grain so much! Thanks for sharing!
 
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