Gluing fretboard on neck accurately

ChuckBarnett

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Building the neck start to finish is entirely a frustrating experience for me. And the capstone has now become gluing the fretboard onto the neck. I tried my level best to realign the neck (several times) while the glue was setting up and thought that I had it right and tightened the clamps. Turns out I had it all wrong. Now my only option is to pull it off and redo it. But I have no guarantee that I can get it right this time either.

I have to be missing something here. This is epoxy and it seemed like it was setting up and not sliding quite as badly when I finally tightened things up. Any help?

Along with that frustration, I continue to provide cheap entertainment to those who are smarter than I am. I'm really getting tired of asking stupid questions...
 

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Chuck.... Why are you using epoxy? Titebond original will allow you to take it off in the future. You must pin the fretboard to the neck while glueing or it will slide when you clamp it up. I use small drill bits (same diameter as the fret slot cut or so) in two of the fret slots. I put those two frets in after the glue sets up...2nd and 8th I think. Pull out the drill bits and insert the frets . Also make a cull with slots cut for the frets and drill bits to clamp with. Building is a process of learning..... when something goes wrong figure out a way to do it better next time. I am still doing this after my 100th uke this month.
 
Put a false nut in, waxed so it can easily be removed later. That will prevent the fretboard sliding towards the head. Given that you've still got the excess on the neck glue on four 'tabs' of softwood to the neck, either side of the fretboard position, say fret 2 position and two tabs near to the body junction position.
The fretboard cannot slide anywhere.
 
I use a Carbon Fibre truss rod in my necks. It's 6mm tall and 4mm wide. I machine 4mm slot into the neck and 2mm into the underside of the fret board. All done on my CNC. It also acts as a locating fixture when doing other machining operations.

When it's time to glue up a I use a blank nut that spaces off of the head plate veneer stops movement in that direction and the CF is a key that stops any sideways movement.

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I use a Carbon Fibre truss rod in my necks. It's 6mm tall and 4mm wide. I machine 4mm slot into the neck and 2mm into the underside of the fret board. All done on my CNC. It also acts as a locating fixture when doing other machining operations.

When it's time to glue up a I use a blank nut that spaces off of the head plate veneer stops movement in that direction and the CF is a key that stops any sideways movement.

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Chuck, I’m guessing you saw my vid on what Allen described. Different path, but same end result. Like Allen, I use this process for other processes based on my “centerline jigs” which also includes neck shaping jigs, and the M&T jig of course. I think Beau is going to do the same as well.



Like Tom mentioned, pins are used to locate and keep the board from moving. I’ve never done the pins in the fret slot, but I used to do pins under 2 marker dots. This becomes and issue when the board is inlayed, but works otherwise.
 
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Chuck, I like many the elegant solutions builders come up with, but Tom's drill bit method is a no brainer. Super easy, requires no fancy set-up, and works 100% of the time. I'm not in the shop, but I think I use a #50 drill bit. I use a caul the same taper as the fretboard, but hollowed in the center so that it presses on the outside edges of the board. Although I see a lot of warnings about not using waterbase glue like Titebond to glue the board with, can't say it has ever been a problem for me. And, I have had to remove fretboards, so I'm happy to not have used epoxy.--Bob
 
I first drill the fretboard for 2.5mm marker dots at the 5th 7th and 10th frets space...Then do a dry fit (fretboard to the neck) when satisfied with the position "clamp in place"...then I drill through the 2.5mm marker dot holes in the fretboard into the neck about 3mm deep at the 5th and 10th fret...and next fit in a couple of white 2.5mm plastic dowels...these dowels become marker dots later when trimmed glued and sanded flush.. they can easily be re-drilled out later and other marker dots fitted if desired...
Finally I glue this assembly together with Titebond...I used to use surgical rubber tubing wrapped tightly around it for the glue up, but now days I use a shop made clamping jig for more accuracy :) see here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_80aDHEYkk&t=33s
 
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Here's another vote for pinning with drill bits. I have a cheap pin vise I got on Amazon years ago for maybe $10 or so. It came with a variety of very fine drill bits. I just use those to drill the holes and to pin fretboards. LMII sells a special set of drill bits and pins for this purpose, but it's horrendously overpriced. Drill the holes, wax the bits so they don't get glued in place, stick them back in, and you're good to go.

On necks where I fret after gluing on, I drill through fret slots. One in each end of the neck. Easy peasy and the holes get hidden when you fret.

On necks where I fret before gluing on, I leave out a fret near each end, then drill through that fret slot, then put the fret in afterwards. In the past I had a practice of leaving a thin tab of wood on the end of the fretboard where the nut would go, and pinning through that - then cutting the tab out after the glue was dried. I've also hidden the hole under an inlay dot, then added the dot afterwards. Lots of creative ways to do this.

The real challenge comes if you ever build a fretless bass - no fret slots to hide the holes! For those, I drill blind holes into the back of the fretboard and pin it in place with bits of bamboo skewer into matching holes in the neck.

Some people (and some factories!) will shoot a staple into the neck, then cut off the top part to leave to small metal points sticking up and use those to locate the fretboard. Or use a finish nail with the head clipped off. But I really dislike the idea of leaving metal hidden in the neck to make things difficult for any future repairs. I once ruined a router bit while milling off a damaged fretboard that had been pinned with metal like this.

I don't final shape the neck until after the fretboard is glued on. I profile the back and shape it to a pencil-line-width bigger than the fretboard on each side. This gives a small amount of leeway to true things up if it somehow manages to get a smidge out of line, or if you need to purposefully glue it a smidge off center, i.e. to correct for the neck being a little off center against the body. Once the glue is dry, a few swipes of a fine rasp along each side brings things right in line and ready for final finish sanding.
 
The last time this operation was discussed on this forum...sprinkling fine sand or salt in with the glue,prevented the board sliding around while clamping.
 
The last time this operation was discussed on this forum...sprinkling fine sand or salt in with the glue,prevented the board sliding around while clamping.

Wouldn't that keep the two surfaces from touching completely? Or was that a post from April 1? :D
 
Salt in a joint to prevent slippage is a pretty old woodworking trick. With water-based glue the salt theoretically dissolves as the glue dries. I've done it, out of curiosity, but I wouldn't (personally) rely on it for anything requiring ultimate precision. I'm sure there are others who do it and find it works fine, though.
 
Salt works fine for me. You only need a few grains to do the job and it seems to crush when clamped so doesn't separate the fretboard from the neck.
I just use iodised table salt but upmarket builders may like to use Maldon or pink Himalayan rock salt :)
Miguel
 
Here's another vote for pinning with drill bits. I have a cheap pin vise I got on Amazon years ago for maybe $10 or so. It came with a variety of very fine drill bits. I just use those to drill the holes and to pin fretboards. LMII sells a special set of drill bits and pins for this purpose, but it's horrendously overpriced. Drill the holes, wax the bits so they don't get glued in place, stick them back in, and you're good to go.

On necks where I fret after gluing on, I drill through fret slots. One in each end of the neck. Easy peasy and the holes get hidden when you fret.

On necks where I fret before gluing on, I leave out a fret near each end, then drill through that fret slot, then put the fret in afterwards. In the past I had a practice of leaving a thin tab of wood on the end of the fretboard where the nut would go, and pinning through that - then cutting the tab out after the glue was dried. I've also hidden the hole under an inlay dot, then added the dot afterwards. Lots of creative ways to do this.

The real challenge comes if you ever build a fretless bass - no fret slots to hide the holes! For those, I drill blind holes into the back of the fretboard and pin it in place with bits of bamboo skewer into matching holes in the neck.

Some people (and some factories!) will shoot a staple into the neck, then cut off the top part to leave to small metal points sticking up and use those to locate the fretboard. Or use a finish nail with the head clipped off. But I really dislike the idea of leaving metal hidden in the neck to make things difficult for any future repairs. I once ruined a router bit while milling off a damaged fretboard that had been pinned with metal like this.

I don't final shape the neck until after the fretboard is glued on. I profile the back and shape it to a pencil-line-width bigger than the fretboard on each side. This gives a small amount of leeway to true things up if it somehow manages to get a smidge out of line, or if you need to purposefully glue it a smidge off center, i.e. to correct for the neck being a little off center against the body. Once the glue is dry, a few swipes of a fine rasp along each side brings things right in line and ready for final finish sanding.

I did the thing with installing a couple of point-up brads in the neck. In that case, I bought a completely premade fret board, so there was no possibility of using fret slots or a position marker holes. However, I used brass brads, which are a lot softer than steel and less likely to damage someone's saw or router bit in the future.

I've seen a recommendation to use tape to lock the position in before clamping, but I've never actually tried it.
 
Some people (and some factories!) will shoot a staple into the neck, then cut off the top part to leave to small metal points sticking up and use those to locate the fretboard.

Yup, the staple method works and is simple... Ditch the epoxy and use Titebond. Also another tip: drill shallow holes in the bottom of the fretboard for the excess glue to migrate to. A couple shallow holes with a 1/4 inch bit is all that is needed. It helps prevent "skating" and excess squeeze out. Old trick.
 
Since I usually finish the top of my fretboards (fret and dots) before I glue them on to the neck, I need something hidden. I use two very small brass brads (or escutcheon pins). I tap them into the neck, then snip the heads off. Then I align and press the fretboard onto the neck. I drill very shallow holes were the brads leave an impression in the back of the fretboard. The holes are a snug fit to the brads and keep things aligned while gluing. I doubt anyone will ever remove a fretboard from any of my ukes, but if they do I don't think the brass will damage any tools.
 
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I use small nails in the 1st and 13th fret slots to stop the FB from moving around.

I nib off the tiny nail head, put the nail in a hand drill and use the nail to "drill" into and through the fret slot.
Sounds a bit strange but it has worked perfectly for 20 years.

I wanted to use Aaon Oya's method but it poses certain problems for my build style that seem to make it unusable for me :(
 
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Thank you, so much for your help fixing my poor job gluing the fretboard on this tenor! With it already fretted, I took the advise to glue guide pieces to the as yet un trimmed neck blank to border the fretboard on each side. I had a nut place-holder piece to prevent the f/b from creeping too close to the head stock. I used Titebond rather than epoxy this time. Someone else's advice was to make a caul with slots cut for the frets. Seeing no safe way to do that, I made a crosscut sled for my tablesaw and eyeballed the fret marks I'd put on a block of Oak. The 1/8" blade gave me a little wiggle room for the frets. This f/b is radiused so my caul had to be radiused as well. So I shaped a piece of wood using the 12" LMI radius block and then stuck sandpaper on that to radius the caul (Oak).

The fretboard didn't move at all. I trimmed the neck to the fretboard and shaped the neck. (which, I've learned is the right order, not the way I did it originally.

I've nearly lost count but best I can recall, for this uke I've made 2 necks, 2 fretboards, and now glued it on two times.

Hurrying to catch up with all you folks who say you've probably made every mistake you can...

Chuck B
 
I glue my boards on when my neck is at a similar state of completion. I set up C-clamps to but up with the boards at the nut and towards the body end. Four points of contact with clamps at either end and on both sides. I can play with these until my alignment is perfect. I do this while the neck blank is held in a vise. Slide the tapered board out towards the body, apply clue and slide back in. It is probably a pretty amateurish way of going about things, but that is what I am.
 
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