I Bought a uke on Marketplace but it is defective. Need your opinions, please...

I always take photos while packing the instrument. It gives me a good opprotunity to ensure it's in the condition I described and a visual for the customer and myself in case there is a discrepancy when he receives it.

Seeing there was a problem is one thing but to have the seller all of a sudden quit responding would make me want to take every avenue for satisfaction on my part.

Oh I have no doubt that the seller was not aware of the issue! But, unforttunately, not because of seller's fault, I received an instrument that was not as described (i. e. "perfect "). In this case, I believe that it is fair that buyer pays for return shipping and seller issues a full refund. But luckily everything has been resolved in a very positive way , thanks to the seller who kindly accepted to pay for the repair's cost ($34.00 is my repair tech charge)!

gerardo1000 said:

Oh I have no doubt that the seller was not aware of the issue! But, unforttunately, not because of seller's fault, I received an instrument that was not as described (i. e. "perfect "). In this case, I believe that it is fair that buyer pays for return shipping and seller issues a full refund. But luckily everything has been resolved in a very positive way , thanks to the seller who kindly accepted to pay for the repair's cost ($34.00 is my repair tech charge)!

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I wonder how much work the repairer actually did for that charge, but perhaps it does not matter as you’re now happy. For a return of sale elsewhere I’m really not so certain that a vendor who sold in good faith would be happy to pick up the tab for return postage, buying second hand does involve shouldering some risk in the process. Whatever, the vendor might now be concerned and wonder just what happened ... I think I’d be a bit unhappy and cautious about future sales. Personally I would never knowingly misdescribe an item for sale and where known I will never sell an item to anyone who has a reputation for either quibbling or returning items - I want sales to be simple and final. Likewise with purchases, I will never willingly buy from anyone who isn’t (trying to be) completely honest with me.

Most pro luthiers and techs will tell you that the proper fix for a lifting bridge is to first remove the old bridge then clean the parts and reattach it with the correct amount and kind of glue. So if the repair person did a good job, the $34 seems very reasonable.
Of course some will just shoot some glue in there and clamp it....

In any case, it is not an "easy two minutes fix, easier than adjusting a nut slot" as I was told by the vendor. My repair tech is working right now on the repair, he said that for an under $200.00 ukulele it is not worth to spend over $100.00 to remove and re-glue the whole bridge. He believes that the gap between the right section of the bridge and the top is due to an insufficient amount of glue used during the build of the ukulele (in China). I trust his opinion. And that is why his cost is only $34.00 rather than $100.00+... and I very much appreciate that the seller is covering the cost.

Patrick Madsen said:

I always take photos while packing the instrument. It gives me a good opprotunity to ensure it's in the condition I described and a visual for the customer and myself in case there is a discrepancy when he receives it.

Seeing there was a problem is one thing but to have the seller all of a sudden quit responding would make me want to take every avenue for satisfaction on my part.

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Gerardo,

Thanks for posting your experience. I have heard various stories about whether PayPal will get involved in a dispute. It's nice to know they will.

I had a problem with a Kamaka 100th Anniversary tenor listed on the Facebook Ukulele Marketplace site. It said "like new" in the description and the photos looked good. I asked specifically about no dings, scratches or dents and was assured there were none. When it arrived, there was a BIG dent in the edge of the upper bout. Several dings on the top and back and lots of scratches all over it. I complained tot he seller. He replied that the instrument looked fine to him when he packed it. I sent him copies of the photos I took as I unpacked it, AND the emails we had exchanged. He apologized and sent a total refund three weeks after he received my return. But only after I asked him if he was unable to make the refund. That I'd let him make it in installments if he didn't have the money. He got quite offended about that suggestion and sent it the next day. The only response I received from PayPal was to talk to the seller first. If unresolved after a month they'd look into it.

Sounds as though you lucked out.

IMO, I'd pay the cost to return it, but to ask for the original shipping to you is pretty outrageous for a defective item.

Firstly, I am extremely relieved and glad that things worked out for both parties involved in this unfortunate situation. I feel badly this incident came to pass, and I can understand this situation from both the perspective of the buyer and the seller (I have been on both sides of this coin before, and neither side is fun place to find oneself).

Secondly, personally, I don’t necessarily believe in the condition of ‘perfect.’ Additionally, what is ‘perfect’ in the eyes of one person may not be the case in the eyes of another. Who is right, then, in this situation? It is difficult to know. It really is subjective and, therefore, again, difficult to ascertain.

In this particular situation, however, I realize and agree that a detached bridge definitively would render an instrument ‘imperfect’ - yet, I’d like to think that the seller was unaware that there was such an issue with the bridge, and that s/he did try to sell, in good faith, an instrument s/he believed to be in proper order for a sale as described.

Sometimes, things can be wrong with our instruments and we’re not always aware this is the case unless it’s glaringly obvious. It may sound ridiculous to say that, but it can and does happen. Oversights, unfortunately, do happen, even when purchasing a ‘new’ instrument as well as ‘pre-loved’ instruments. This cycles back to my original point of perfection: as humans, we are not perfect beings; we make mistakes. Whether it’s in creating/building an instrument, or an oversight that we were not aware in selling an instrument, ‘it’ happens. That’s just life.

I’d like to truly believe that both sellers and buyers on the UU Marketplace are trying to do right by one another. I like to believe that no one here is trying to pull a ‘fast one’ over on another member. Having been on the UU Forum since 2012, I know that people don’t get away with that sort of behavior here. Sooner or later, the cards are dealt and things are brought out into the light. In these cases, from my personal experience and perspective, all that this leads to is unrest on the forum; it then creates an environment in which members, buyers and sellers alike, become a bit (or more) skeptical of conducting transactions here. With time, tho, things do settle down and blow over. Needless to say, it is still unfortunate when a transaction, as the OP describes, comes to fruition. Again, I am just glad that both parties came to an amicable agreement and arrangement. That’s what matters most.

I'm glad it's settled. I once sold a uke that I thought was perfect. The buyer contacted me and said there were two scratches on the headstock. I looked at pictures I had taken when it was new, and sure enough, there were two scratches. They were very small, and I had to magnify the picture to see them. I had bought the uke from a reputable dealer, and I have no complaints. I hadn't noticed the scratches while I had it because they were so small. I accepted a return and refunded the buyer.

When I got it back, I put a bit of furniture polish (or something) over the scratches, and they totally disappeared. I sold it shortly after that, showing the buyer the before and after pictures.

I wonder if the moderators on this forum should consider a rule that calls for the buyer to pay for both return shipping and seller's shipping if an item matches the seller's description but it is returned because the buyer just doesn't like it or simply changed his mind. And, in case an item is returned because it does not match the description, buyer pays for return shipping and seller issues a full refund. If there is a dispute, photos can be posted and the moderators can offer an opinion...

gerardo1000 said:

I wonder if the moderators on this forum should consider a rule that calls for the buyer to pay for both return shipping and seller's shipping if an item matches the seller's description but it is returned because the buyer just doesn't like it or simply changed his mind. And, in case an item is returned because it does not match the description, buyer pays for return shipping and seller issues a full refund. If there is a dispute, photos can be posted and the moderators can offer an opinion...

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I think they'd sooner eliminate the marketplace than get involved in policing problematic sales.

gerardo1000 said:

I wonder if the moderators on this forum should consider a rule that calls for the buyer to pay for both return shipping and seller's shipping if an item matches the seller's description but it is returned because the buyer just doesn't like it or simply changed his mind. And, in case an item is returned because it does not match the description, buyer pays for return shipping and seller issues a full refund. If there is a dispute, photos can be posted and the moderators can offer an opinion...

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If you use PayPal, you can request the seller pay return shipping on a "not as described" item. You will be required to show the ad from which you purchased the item and any email correspondence between you and the seller to prove your case of misrepresentation.

Ragtop232 said:

If you use PayPal, you can request the seller pay return shipping on a "not as described" item. You will be required to show the ad from which you purchased the item and any email correspondence between you and the seller to prove your case of misrepresentation.

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I also state the model of the item, and the seller's exact condition description from the listing in the PP note area.

I've only had one seller try to claim that he/she never said the instrument was in "New" condition. That helped persuade them to refund my money after I returned it. It take pics of any return as I pack it, for proof of the condition when it was sent back. I usually photograph an item as I unpack it for proof of the state of the box, case and instrument.

So far, after 30+ instruments, I've only had one instance of a person deliberately selling me an instrument that had an obvious problem. It was NOT on UU Marketplace. There were some dents he disclosed, but the soundboard had come away from the side for a couple of inches. He was quite careful about how he photographed it. But on very close examination of one photo, I could see the edge of the side sticking out. I all but $100 back from him and kept the uke. He made a shipping claim for the damage to the instrument. It's a pity. It was a gorgeous early Cocobolo tenor and the wood was amazing. I had it repaired, but it wasn't quite right. So I gave it to a friend who was interested in it.

At the end, my point is very simple. When I received the ukulele, it really looked like new, so I have no reasons to believe that the seller was aware of the bridge issue. But still, with no seller's bad faith, I received a defective item. In these cases, I strongly believe that the seller should issue a full refund after the buyer returns the item at his own expenses. In my case, once PayPal got involved and the seller received a PayPal communication that I opened a case, the seller resolved the issue with my full satisfaction, and I am grateful to him. But, generally speaking, I strongly believe that it should be part of the Marketplace rules that if an item is not as described in the listing, seller is obligated to a full refund of the price paid by the buyer.

gerardo1000 said:

At the end, my point is very simple. When I received the ukulele, it really looked like new, so I have no reasons to believe that the seller was aware of the bridge issue. But still, with no seller's bad faith, I received a defective item. In these cases, I strongly believe that the seller should issue a full refund after the buyer returns the item at his own expenses. In my case, once PayPal got involved and the seller received a PayPal communication that I opened a case, the seller resolved the issue with my full satisfaction, and I am grateful to him. But, generally speaking, I strongly believe that it should be part of the Marketplace rules that if an item is not as described in the listing, seller is obligated to a full refund of the price paid by the buyer.

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It could be a suggestion, but the moderators would have no way of enforcing such a rule. And if there is a dispute about the condition, UU would have to step in to determine who is right, etc. Right now it is just a place to list items and purchase from the seller. Everything else is between buyer and seller.

Just as the UU Marketplace has no way to enforce a "suggested donation fee" if you sell an item here. (Yes, there is such a thing.)

Purchases from private individuals can be iffy. I much prefer to buy used ukuleles from Reverb, Ebay, Amazon, or a dealer I trust such as Matt at Alohacityukes, Mike at Ukerepublic, or Mim.

By the way, I think Ebay's system is a good idea -- buyers rate sellers & sellers rate buyers. In the early days, I had sellers who declined to sell me some rather expensive items because I had a very short track record as a buyer. I now use the same yardstick in assessing sellers.

Ragtop232 said:

If you use PayPal, you can request the seller pay return shipping on a "not as described" item. You will be required to show the ad from which you purchased the item and any email correspondence between you and the seller to prove your case of misrepresentation.

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I think PayPal can only do this if it was a "professional" sale. Many P2P sales are done with a simple transaction without fees and invoice etc like a gift to family. In that case PayPal won't help. And yeah their customer service is worst. I can't even report fraud to them.

This has been a very enlightening thread. I'm glad that the issue was resolved in a civil manner.
Every deal I've been through here has gone very well. UU people seem very honest. I can't speak for every dealer. I've only dealt with Mim and Elderly. Mim has always been excellent.