Naming convention: tuning sequence vs string numbers?

Louis0815

Louis0815

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I was asked recently if I had any explanation for the opposite naming sequences of the ukulele - and I had no clue, so I thought I put this question to the broader community:

Why are we numbering the strings bottom to top and yet name the tuning top to bottom?

4th string is tuned G/A/D
3rd string is tuned C/D/G
2nd string is tuned E/F#/B
1st string is tuned A/B/E

Is there any reason for this? Or did it just happen at some point in the past?
 
Good question...... :)

....all I can say is that it's the same as guitars, (& other stringed instruments, possibly?).

Start at the bottom & work your way upwards, for the strings - start with the low notes to the high notes, conventional linear tunings.(?)
 
If I had to guess, I'd say that the string numbering refers to the pitch of each string when plucked hile open. In other words, the 1 string is the highest string, not geographically (farthest from the ground when the instrument is being played) but in pitch. So the numbers go from highest pitch to lowest pitch. (I realize that ukuleles at first had only reentrant tuning, but I'm guessing that this convention was imported from guitars, which have linear tuning.)

The tuning convention, from the string closest to your head to the string closest to the ground, could come from strumming. It's common when you pick up an instrument to strum it from the string closest to your head to the string closest to the ground, so it makes sense to identify the open string notes in the order in which you would hear them during that strum.

Just speculation on my part.
 
The string numbering convention predates ukes and guitars. The best theory I’ve heard on it is that older lutes had varying numbers of strings, with the high strings fairly consistent and varying numbers or low strings. The melody could be consistently numbered on the high strings. Adding high strings was rarer.

Fun fact: tab predates standard notation.

No idea on the tuning direction naming
 
I openly admit it is just one of those things which makes no sense but it merely is. Kind of like the phenomenon of how the urge to pee increases the closer you get to home: I don't understand it but I obey it. On a similar note I have always disliked how when you go down the fretboard, you have to say you're going up the fretboard.
 
I thought about it once when I first started and quickly decided that pursuing the whys and wherefores would be theoretical at best and of no practical use to me, so I just accepted it and moved on. I will however follow this thread now to see how others have tried to make sense of it.
 
mds725 said:
...The tuning convention, from the string closest to your head to the string closest to the ground, could come from strumming. It's common when you pick up an instrument to strum it from the string closest to your head to the string closest to the ground, so it makes sense to identify the open string notes in the order in which you would hear them during that strum.
...
Click to expand...

I think tuning starting from the low string (guitar string #6, uke string #3) is because it is easier to tune from the lower string. This is tuning without a tuner.
 
The Renaissance guitar had four courses—G D E A—and was tuned both linear and reentrant. The first published music for the Renaissance guitar dates from the early 1500s and was in TAB. Basically the early guitar was the first ukulele...

Although TAB is old (was used for organ music first), mensural notation used for singing Gregorian chant predates TAB. Here's a sample of Renaissance guitar TAB:
mudarra_pavana.jpg


And finally, the sound of Renaissance guitar, sorta a long scale taro patch tenor...
 
Louis0815 said:
I was asked recently if I had any explanation for the opposite naming sequences of the ukulele - and I had no clue, so I thought I put this question to the broader community:

Why are we numbering the strings bottom to top and yet name the tuning top to bottom?

4th string is tuned G/A/D
3rd string is tuned C/D/G
2nd string is tuned E/F#/B
1st string is tuned A/B/E

Is there any reason for this? Or did it just happen at some point in the past?
Click to expand...

Haha...I've always wondered the same thing...
 
The thing that makes me nuts is seeing standard uke tuning as gCEA and GCEA. Drives me nuts. Seems like low g tuning should be gCEA (to differentiate the low from high tuning) but I see the opposite.
 
Yep.......
Some seem to see it soundwise and put a big G for the louder low-g string - others take it literally and use a low g character. (I am with you though, for me GCEA is re-entrant and gCEA is linear tuning)
 
Arcy's quite right: on early fretted instruments, the number of strings (or courses) could vary, but usually only on the lower pitched side, so it made sense to start counting them from the highest pitched one on.
 
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Beautiful playing.

I cannot figure out this tab at all. Admittedly, I haven't tried very hard and am not motivated. Probably knowing all the symbols would help. But it looks cool.

gochugogi said:
The Renaissance guitar had four courses
Click to expand...
 
I am having trouble "replying with quote". My posts are truncated before I get to make my point.
While it's true that tab is an ancient method of transcribing lute music, it went out of fashion and had all but disappeared until it was revived by Pete Seeger in his How To Play The 5 String Banjo book in 1948. This book was also the source of the terms hammer on and pull off.
 
ripock wrote, "I have always disliked how when you go down the fretboard, you have to say you're going up the fretboard."

I have found this confusion when trying to explain things to my beginning students, so I make it clear in an early lesson that there are two ways of describing "up" and "down" on the guitar/banjo/ukulele... Some folks use gravity and others use pitch. I tell them that in our lessons, we will be using pitch, so the top or high string is the 1st or unwound E and the bottom or low string is the 6th or wound E. Up the neck is closer to the bridge and down the neck is closer to the nut. (This is referring to guitar, but I also have ukulele, banjo and mandolin students. Same comments apply)
Both the gravity and the pitch method are correct, but, unless you make it clear which one you are using, things can get really confusing.
 
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Jim Yates said:
ripock wrote, "I have always disliked how when you go down the fretboard, you have to say you're going up the fretboard."

I have found this confusion when trying to explain things to my beginning students, so I make it clear in an early lesson that there are two ways of describing "up" and "down" on the guitar/banjo/ukulele... Some folks use gravity and others use pitch. I tell them that in our lessons, we will be using pitch, so the top or high string is the 1st or unwound E and the bottom or low string is the 6th or wound E. Up the neck is closer to the bridge and down the neck is closer to the nut.
Both the gravity and the pitch method are correct, but, unless you make it clear which one you are using, things can get really confusing.
Click to expand...

Hey Jim, over the years you have really helped me get my mind straight in terms of nomenclature and using the correct enharmonic name for a key. I have one specific question that relates to gravity versus pitch. When discussing a scale, for example the B Phrygian Dominant which spans the 11th frets to the 16th fret, I will often refer to the top or the bottom of the scale. But what is the "top"? Is the top of the scale the 11th fret or the 16th fret? I ask because I want to speak in a way that other musicians will find it relatable and correct.
 
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