DIY setup out of frustration

Dohle

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I suppose this thread could be suitable for the Luthier Lounge but since I'm not actually building a uke I'll just leave this here.

I have a number of mid and high-end ukes purchased from several different stores, and yesterday as I was playing and restringing a few of them I noticed some weird issues. On one of them, all of the strings weren't actually at the same height at the nut, and on another the nut slot for the 2nd string was cut at an angle so that the string gets caught on the nut slot when tightening or loosening the string. I'm glad I noticed these issues since now I know why I've been having some playability, tuning and intonation issues with these ukes, but I'm simply baffled these issues exist in the first place. These are high-end Hawaiian brands bought from reputable dealers (not naming names out of courtesy) and yet I'm experiencing issues that would and should be resolved with a simple setup. You might recall my previous frustration with a KoAloha soprano with a badly cut nut, so this isn't even the first time I'm experiencing these kinds of issues. I know that some brands like to leave the action fairly high at both the nut and saddle so maybe the responsibility, in the end, lies with the dealers.

Luckily, I know a very good luthier whose workshop is quite close to me but I really don't want to continually bring my ukes to him for a simple nut job (heh). So ultimately, I decided to order some nut files and learn to do setup for the nut myself. I'm a bit terrified of messing with the nut on high-end ukes but I did order some extra nuts for me to practice on. I'm confident I can do the job myself if I'm just careful enough but I'm happy to take any pointers from more experienced people that have done setups themselves.

Also, shoutout to the Southern Ukulele Store and World of Ukes. I've had zero issues regarding setup on any ukes I've purchased from them.
 
You're absolutely correct, there shouldn't be a problem with a high-end instrument and it's always frustrating to have to deal with such an issue, especially when new!

Nevertheless, nut adjustment is a relatively easy task, with a modicum of care ;)

The one trick/tip to know is the "baking powder & superglue" trick.
This combination makes a virtually instant filler and can be used in minute quantities.

1). Fill any oversize slot with baking powder, a scrap of card or tape can be useful to keep things in place.
2). Apply the tiniest drop of superglue, from the tip of a thin screwdriver or similar, NEVER straight from the bottle.
3). Wait a few seconds for it all to set, then re-cut or file to suit!

Great for "reverting" an instrument from low-G to high-G, but can be useful in a multitude of scenarios.

Inevitably, YMMV - :music:
 
Sorry to hear about your uke troubles.

What you want to do isn't difficult. I've done it. Here're some advice I can give you:

1. If possible, practice on a cheap uke; if not, don't worry, chances are that you aren't going to mess up. I practiced on my Kamaka.

2. Test your skills by lower the nut just slightly. I'm glad I did because I didn't realize how tight you need to fit the string slot to avoid buzzing. You need to go a little narrower than what you think the string width is.

3. Put a feeler gauge under the strings as a stop while filing. This way, you can set exactly how much to file and all strings will be at the same height.

I think you should have gone with your initial instinct and posted this in the Luthier Lounge.
 
I took a picture of what I was trying to describe in #3 above:IMG_1686.JPG

The steel feeler gauge will stop your filing so you can't cut too deep. The Kamaka nut was surprisingly easy to file (my point of reference was filing PCB's, printed circuit boards, back in my college days, those are really hard and tough).
 
Sorry to hear about your uke troubles.

What you want to do isn't difficult. I've done it. Here're some advice I can give you:

1. If possible, practice on a cheap uke; if not, don't worry, chances are that you aren't going to mess up. I practiced on my Kamaka.

2. Test your skills by lower the nut just slightly. I'm glad I did because I didn't realize how tight you need to fit the string slot to avoid buzzing. You need to go a little narrower than what you think the string width is.

3. Put a feeler gauge under the strings as a stop while filing. This way, you can set exactly how much to file and all strings will be at the same height.

I think you should have gone with your initial instinct and posted this in the Luthier Lounge.

Thanks for the pointers. Unfortunately I don't have a cheap uke handy but that's why I ordered some spare nuts to practice on. Actually, my baritone has a loose nut so I could practice properly with that by trying to file the spare nut I ordered and testing it on the baritone. I ordered a feeler gauge as well but didn't think to utilize it quite like that. I thought I'd just mark the spot where I'd like the nut slot to be with a pencil but the feeler gauge will help with that too.

Honestly, the only thing I'm worried is getting the downward angle for the nut slots right. I have a few ukes that have fairly wide nut slots for the strings I'm currently using for them and I haven't experienced any buzzing from too wide of a nut slot so I'm not particularly worried about that.
 
You can do this. It's not difficult.

My advice is, if you're working with something expensive and you want to reduce the chances of having to repair/replace a nut or bridge, WORK SLOWLY.

Carefully check exactly what it is you're trying to fix. You can straighten out that slot if you want to, but it's probably not all that critical. From there... think intonation. Now that you know the string is fully seated in the bottom of the nut slot and not binding in any way... tune it up, and then check the intonation of the first 2-3 frets. Take note of how sharp it's going on each of those frets. Write it down! Now you've got reference.

Remove that string, and take maybe 1/16" or even a 1/32" out of that nut slot. Then string it up and check it again. How much did you improve that intonation problem? Use that as your guide moving forward. Maybe you're close now? Maybe that got you half way there?

If you're going to lower the action at the bridge, I'd think you would want to do that before you get TOO low on the nut. Kind of work both ends a little bit at a time. You can take "measurements" without really taking measurements. I like the "business card at the first fret" trick, myself. You want the string as low as it can be, but a standard business card should still slide between the string and the fret. For action, people are usually looking for 2-3mm at the 12th fret, and it's a very personal decision as to where you want it to be. I just eyeball it and go for about 1/8"... and I shave a little bit more off of the bridge every time I have the strings off... small changes in pursuit of perfection.

But, if you go crazy with the file and take too much off at once, then you'll be creating more work for yourself and stressing yourself out.

Slow and easy. I tend to do it over the course of WEEKS. (mostly because I'm lazy and procrastinate a lot) I'll make a change and live with it for a while. Be sure the strings are fully bedded in, and then recheck the intonation.

YMMV. I'm no expert, just a chronic DIY type.

Oh, and there's a thread on here recently that made me realize something that I'd been blindly lucky about. The saddle height is very likely slanted so that the C (or the low G) string is higher off of the fretboard than the A string. You want the strings to be as low as practical without buzzing so that they don't go sharp when you fret them. The fat strings are both fatter, and they move more when they vibrate, thus the slanted bridge height. Just be sure that if you're shaving the bridge height, try to remove material evenly from the bottom, and put the bridge back in the correct way!

You could get into fancy intonation compensation at the bridge (or the nut), but unless something it really wonky with your instrument, I don't think you should have to.

Have fun!
 
Thanks for the comments, LorenFL!

Luckily, I don't intend to touch the bridge on any of my ukes, at least not for the moment. I'm not that fussy about the action at the 12th fret and on all my ukes the action is somewhere between 2,5 and 3,0 mm which is perfectly fine for me. This is also good because lowering the saddle is a much more laborious task, at least in my opinion. With the nut, you can do one nut slot and string at a time. My issue with the nut slots is related to intonation first and playability second, so I really appreciate the advice.

I'm one of those completely impatient types. When I started noticing the issues yesterday I wanted to have a go at the nut immediately but of course I can't since I don't have the equipment yet. But don't worry, I'm not impatient when it comes to the actual job at hand. On the contrary, I intend to be extra careful and go slow, as you suggested. This was my approach with widening the holes for new tuners on my vintage Martin. You can't imagine how nerve-racking it is filing away on an almost 100 year old instrument. Or maybe you can. :D

I'll probably report back how it went once I receive all the knick-knacks I ordered.
 
I find the basic bridge height a pretty easy thing to do. I use sandpaper (used sandpaper for the nut, too... just folded it so that it was about the right thickness), just lay it on a flat table and rub the saddle over it for a while. I put a sharpie mark on the bottom 1/8" of the saddle as a reference for how much material I'm removing.

Messing with the nut is the more finicky job. 4 slots to adjust, and much more critical if you go too far. (though, as has been noted, easy enough to repair with some super glue if you go too far)
 
I agree with @LorenFL, lowering the bridge is much easier than the nut. I've done that too. You just slide the bridge out and run it over sandpaper; you'd want to sand evenly, which isn't difficult if you use a book or something to push the bridge against while sanding.

Although my reason for making the adjustment wasn't as serious as yours (I lowered my HF-1 action from 2.8mm to 2.5mm), it made me more attached to my HF-1 since I've personally put some work into it (yes, besides the bumps and scratches I lovingly gave it during normal use).

Anyway, I highly recommend using the feeler gauge as a stop. The nut files away very fast from my experience. I first also marked with a pencil; and promptly filed past that without much effort. The steel stop also lets me file away at the angle needed without worries.
 
Couple of pointers...

Get some blue painters masking tape and cover the headstock before you file the nut slots.

To protect the frets, I slip a thin steel cabinet scraper under the strings carefully... yes, I have “nicked” a fret with a nut file. When you check the depth of your cut, just slip the cabinet scraper out and replace it if you have to cut more.
 
Instrument setup is a tricky thing because there's no one size fits all solution.

Years ago I used to rely on dealer setup and my local reputable luthier. But more recently I now do all my own setups.

An ukulele or guitar is almost never setup the way I prefer, including high end. I just assume every instrument I buy will require some setup. Every instrument in my collection has been personally setup.
 
Thanks to everyone for putting all this (that is difficult to search for here) into this one thread for us non-builders. The next step might be the best/easiest way to check and correct frets that need help after lowering the strings.

And Dohle, I always seem to be thinking about the same problems as you, whether it's strings for the K1-C or what's in this thread. Very strange :confused:
 
Thanks for all the comments so far. I definitely agree that bridge/saddle setup is easier and less risky but the rigmarole of detuning all the strings, sanding the saddle and then retuning is more laborious if not necessarily harder.


Couple of pointers...

Get some blue painters masking tape and cover the headstock before you file the nut slots.

To protect the frets, I slip a thin steel cabinet scraper under the strings carefully... yes, I have nicked a fret with a nut file. When you check the depth of your cut, just slip the cabinet scraper out and replace it if you have to cut more.

Excellent suggestion. I don't have all that equipment but I'll definitely use some masking tape for the headstock and use something to cover the fretboard for protection. Thanks!


Instrument setup is a tricky thing because there's no one size fits all solution.

Agreed. I can actually appreciate the factory/luthier leaving the action somewhat high since then the shop or player can adjust it as they wish, but since in my case the high action affects intonation I consider that as a flaw. Also, having some strings (the two middle strings in this case) at a slightly different height than the others is unacceptable to me.


Thanks to everyone for putting all this (that is difficult to search for here) into this one thread for us non-builders. The next step might be the best/easiest way to check and correct frets that need help after lowering the strings.

And Dohle, I always seem to be thinking about the same problems as you, whether it's strings for the K1-C or what's in this thread. Very strange :confused:

I didn't think this might be useful for others as well but I'm glad I could help. :) Actually, the reason why I wanted to post this here instead of the Luthier Lounge is exactly because this relates to non-builder issues which typically are very basic stuff for builders.

Great minds think alike, eh? :D


Most of the files and one spare nut arrived today but no feeler gauge yet, and still waiting for one file and a couple of extra nuts. I'll update my progress once those arrive.
 
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I know this has more or less been mentioned several times already, but really the most harmful thing that I see new DIY'ers doing is trying to freehand things or wing it. If you want to adjust a nut slot and you go about it by just picking up a file, pushing the string aside, and filing away, you'll almost certainly be unhappy with the results. The tips above about using feeler gauges, having a system to measure and mark parts out, and having a way to protect or cover things you don't want to file, are really what separate a pro's work from a beginner's. There truly isn't a lot of actual skill involved, it's just more of having a process that produces a predictable, repeatable result. I have people tell me "oh I could never do a setup, I'm not that talented." As if there was some type of magic involved. But then you show them how foolproof it can be, and they're off and running.

Ultimately that's true of pretty much everything related to building an instrument, too. It's not so much skill as it is process, setup, tools, and templates.
 
I know this has more or less been mentioned several times already, but really the most harmful thing that I see new DIY'ers doing is trying to freehand things or wing it. If you want to adjust a nut slot and you go about it by just picking up a file, pushing the string aside, and filing away, you'll almost certainly be unhappy with the results. The tips above about using feeler gauges, having a system to measure and mark parts out, and having a way to protect or cover things you don't want to file, are really what separate a pro's work from a beginner's. There truly isn't a lot of actual skill involved, it's just more of having a process that produces a predictable, repeatable result. I have people tell me "oh I could never do a setup, I'm not that talented." As if there was some type of magic involved. But then you show them how foolproof it can be, and they're off and running.

Ultimately that's true of pretty much everything related to building an instrument, too. It's not so much skill as it is process, setup, tools, and templates.

I reply on YouTube and online articles when I'm doing something new. If you look at enough of them, you can pick out the good points and discard the junk.
 
I don't have any advice because I have only adjusted the saddle and nut on one of my ukes and that was recently, but it plays SO MUCH better now. I have an Ohana TK-50G that the action was just incredibly high. After some work on the nut and then the saddle, it now plays very well. I'm glad that I did it. I used torch tip cleaners on the nut and sandpaper to lower the saddle, but if I was going to be doing this regularly, I'd definitely invest in some quality nut files. Because I was using cheap tools and because I was taking it slowly it took me a couple of hours to get it where I wanted it, but end of the day, it was worth it.

So go for it (but I agree to practice on a cheap uke first).
 
I know this has more or less been mentioned several times already, but really the most harmful thing that I see new DIY'ers doing is trying to freehand things or wing it. If you want to adjust a nut slot and you go about it by just picking up a file, pushing the string aside, and filing away, you'll almost certainly be unhappy with the results. The tips above about using feeler gauges, having a system to measure and mark parts out, and having a way to protect or cover things you don't want to file, are really what separate a pro's work from a beginner's. There truly isn't a lot of actual skill involved, it's just more of having a process that produces a predictable, repeatable result. I have people tell me "oh I could never do a setup, I'm not that talented." As if there was some type of magic involved. But then you show them how foolproof it can be, and they're off and running.

Ultimately that's true of pretty much everything related to building an instrument, too. It's not so much skill as it is process, setup, tools, and templates.

Since we're talking process here, I thought I would re-post my notes from a couple of years ago about ukulele setups.


I’ve been doing setups on my guitars for many years, and I thought I would share a couple of hints that may help those of you who would like to work on your own ukes.

The steps of an acoustic guitar setup are usually given as: 1) adjust truss rod to set relief, 2) adjust string height at the saddle, 3) adjust string height at the nut, and 4) adjust intonation at the saddle. Life is a bit more simple with ukes as there is rarely a truss rod, and most saddles are not compensated for intonation. So with a uke we mostly just care about string height at the nut and at the saddle.

As on a guitar I would start with adjusting the height at the saddle. But before doing that I would first measure the action at the nut. That’s because lowering the string height at the nut will affect action at the 12th fret too. If for example the action is 0.040” at the first fret, and you lower it to 0.020”, that would bring the action at the 12th fret down by half the difference, or 0.010”. If you set the action at the saddle first without keeping this in mind you could overshoot and be too low when finished. The usual way to measure this string height at the first fret is with feeler gauges. But if you’re a tool geek like me you could also invest in a nut slotting gauge which really makes these measurements easy.

Nut_Slotting_Gauge.jpg

http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Tools_by_Job/Tools_for_Nuts_and_Saddles/Nut_Slotting_Gauge.html

And for measuring string height at the 12th fret I use:
16cba9f2fd8f67fccad9ffbed7a22a16.jpg


My target for action at the first fret is about 0.020”, and my target at the 12th fret is about 0.085”. So if I know I have to later lower the action at the nut by say 0.010”, I will target the saddle to give a string height at the 12th fret that is greater by half that difference, or in this case a preliminary target of 0.090” to eventually wind up at 0.085”.

You might wonder why not just set the action at the nut first? You can, but again you have to think about the effect of changing things at the other end. With a little geometry you can show that the action at the 12th fret is reduced by 50% of whatever change you make at the saddle, while that at the first fret is reduced by 5.6%. That is, if you reduce the saddle height by say 0.070” that will drop the string height by 0.035” at the 12th fret, and by 0.004” at the first fret. That 0.004” is not a lot, but it could be enough to cause a string to buzz on the first fret if you set it really low at the start.

So how do you adjust the saddle height? The common method is to draw a pencil line on the side showing how much to remove. In my example above the uke arrives with a 3.0 mm, or 0.120” string height at the 12th fret, and I want to lower it to 0.085”, so I need to remove twice 0.035” at the saddle, or 0.070”. You then sand the saddle across a flat surface (such as a granite tile) with the side of the saddle up against a block to keep the bottom square. This does work, but it’s really easy to mess it up and go too far, or to get an uneven bottom surface. And what if you want to take more off one end of the saddle than the other? I’ve seen several ukes where the string heights were not even, and I needed to remove more from one end of the saddle than the other. Doing that freehand is especially challenging.

Fortunately there is something called a sanding jig that makes this a breeze to do. I first saw a homemade one years ago called the Dickey Saddle Sanding Jig.

http://www.dickeyguitars.com/dickeyguitars/Saddlesand.html
saddlesand.JPG


You lightly clamp the saddle in the jig, then elevate the sides of the jig by the desired amount to be removed, push the saddle all the way down, and tighten. If done correctly you now have just the amount of the saddle to be sanded away sticking out proud of the jig. You then sand away until the block hits the sandpaper, and you’re done. The bottom is perfectly smooth, flat, square, and of the correct height. For the measurement you can use sheets of paper or business cards, anything that stacks to the proper height. And best of all is that you can switch things around to elevate one end more than the other before you tighten the jig. Say take 0.050” off one end, and 0.030” off the other.

You can make one of these for just a few dollars. Or…if you’re like me and love tools, you can buy one readymade – the Saddlemaster Saddle Sanding Jig. Here’s YouTube video showing how to use one that you can purchase on eBay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2znwaPHhMc&feature=youtu.be
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Acoustic-g...582385?hash=item211171a971:g:KfcAAOSwX~dWpR~G


The final step is to adjust the action at the nut. There is really no easy way to do this without getting a set of purpose made nut files. I like the Gauged Nut Slotting Files made by StewMac:

http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tool...ts_and_Saddles/Gauged_Nut_Slotting_Files.html
Gauged_Nut_Slotting_Files0742_zoom__44402_zoom.jpg


For ukulele you could probably get by with only three of them or so. These have a curved bottom profile to give you a nut slot that matches the curve of the string. What you want to avoid is using any type of file that gives you a V shaped nut slot. With a V shape the string height changes when you change string gauge with string types, or from a high G to low G. With rounded nut slots this isn’t an issue. Here of course the thing is to avoid going too deep. I just take it nice and slow, and measure often.

Of course I’ve left for another day discussion of things like being sure the frets are level, or dealing with sharp fret ends that sprout each winter.
 

Oh wow, that is mighty helpful. Thanks for digging up your old post. Even that last picture alone illustrates the one thing I was worried the most quite well, i.e., cutting the nut at an angle towards the base of the tuner posts. I just received some nut files that look very similar to those in the pictures and should produce that round U shape when filing. The ruler I already have for measuring the action. Still waiting for one file and the feeler gauge which I think will suffice for my needs. Cheers.
 
Ok, time for a quick update.

Most of the tools I ordered arrived during the weekend so today I decided to take the bull by the horns. My original plan was to make a new saddle for my baritone as practice since the saddle on the baritone isn't glued on but unfortunately the saddle I ordered was way too short for it. So in the end, I simply tested out the nut files on the spare nut and tried to learn how to cut the nut slots. I was surprised that the files didn't seem to cut the nut that quickly. Not sure if it's the material of the nut or something but after practicing for a bit I thought that filing a single slot would take ages, but I decided to proceed with caution nonetheless.

And I'm glad I did because, ultimately, filing the nut on the actual uke took almost no time at all. The first victim of my beginner luthier skills was my Kanile'a, so you can imagine my anxiety when starting the filing after just a bit of practice. The G and A strings were already cut decently so I only had to do C and E. Fortunately, it was a much easier process than I anticipated. I started filing very carefully and checked the depth of the nut slots with both a feeler gauge and an action ruler a couple of times. I got the action as close to 0.50 mm as I felt comfortable with, restringed the C and E, and checked intonation. Absolutely perfect. Couldn't be happier with the result on my first try. Playability also seemed improved on those strings. Obviously I have to test both the intonation and playability later on since the strings aren't quite stable yet but at this point it seems my little experiment was a success.

Next up is my Kamaka but I'll have to wait for a thicker nut file to arrive first. That'll be more of a challenge since I'll have to do all nut slots and try to deal with nylon strings, but needless to say I'm feeling much more confident as I did before. :)
 
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