Setting up a Waterman soprano

LorenFL said:

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So, yeah. The Kala top flexes and lets the bridge move, and it's NOT okay! It's a fatal design flaw. Somebody should have picked up on that before putting them on the market.

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Look on the bright side: it's a unique Kala Waterman sound!

I’ve been following the thread with interest and wondering what the outcome would be. My belief in the product’s unfitness for purpose has been confirmed.

I like Kala and Makala products a lot and still have two of their basic laminate Sopranos that I’m very pleased with. However, I’m really not certain about where the company is right now and what direction it’s moving in.

IMHO the Waterman is a disappointment and I’ve not heard much comment on them anywhere that’s positive, it’s a puzzle to me why Kala would market a product that seems to disappoint, particularly so when with a bit more effort and research the product could well have been a winner. Perhaps I’ve got it all wrong and the Waterman is a great commercial success, but if so I really wonder whether customers will, as and when they upgrade, later buy an alternative brand.

Graham Greenbag said:

I’ve been following the thread with interest and wondering what the outcome would be. My belief in the product’s unfitness for purpose has been confirmed.

I like Kala and Makala products a lot and still have two of their basic laminate Sopranos that I’m very pleased with. However, I’m really not certain about where the company is right now and what direction it’s moving in.

IMHO the Waterman is a disappointment and I’ve not heard much comment on them anywhere that’s positive, it’s a puzzle to me why Kala would market a product that seems to disappoint, particularly so when with a bit more effort and research the product could well have been a winner. Perhaps I’ve got it all wrong and the Waterman is a great commercial success, but if so I really wonder whether customers will, as and when they upgrade, later buy an alternative brand.

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I have a feeling that the waterman is sold mostly to first-time-uke-playing kids; kind of like a toy. Not many kids will upgrade and not many will continue to play their waterman for too long.

Are these not super cheap like <$50 and designed to be played in rough environments like literally in the water? Expectations on quality of the instrument should keep that in mind.

If the bridge lean is causing a lot of the problems, you may want to try to stick a tight fitting dowel vertically between the back and top of the uke just in front of where the bridge would be resting on top. Assuming it doesn't crack the plastic for some reason it might help with that issue. I have heard of this done before on a carbon fiber guitar that had some issues in its first runs years ago.

Also for $50 you can get a Flight TUS travel uke and an Enya mini Nova isn't much more than that.... Both of those are very playable and very decent sounding instruments in my opinion...without so many issues.

merlin666 said:

Are these not super cheap like <$50 and designed to be played in rough environments like literally in the water? Expectations on quality of the instrument should keep that in mind.

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Yes, they're cheap. And Kala knows how to make a GOOD cheap uke. My first uke was a $40 Makala tenor.

Yes, they're designed to be tossed around and to get wet without damage. None of that is the problem. The design is such that over some period of time, the normal tension of the strings pulls the bridge and warps the top destroying what was very likely laser-perfect intonation.

I didn't buy mine new, it was definitely a store display model. Perhaps if I'd bought it new, it would have been perfect for a few months or more before "going off".

Trust me, I didn't have grand expectations for this uke. It's plastic, and I expected it to sound plastic. But, I didn't expect the intonation to be terrible on what is by its very nature a factory-produced instrument where each and every one should be exactly the same. There's no variance in materials or workmanship at play here. It's molded plastic. It was designed poorly.

jer said:

If the bridge lean is causing a lot of the problems, you may want to try to stick a tight fitting dowel vertically between the back and top of the uke just in front of where the bridge would be resting on top.

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I was kind of thinking that some kind of support like that could have been the original production solution to the problem. I could try playing what notion myself. But, the sound hole on this thing is TINY. Would be like building a ship in a bottle... with a bottle make of opaque black plastic!

Well, you guys inspired me to spend an hour or so playing with this thing again. I made another saddle piece. This time from a proper saddle blank. Basically remade the wooden one that I made, but slightly taller and with the top slanted to move the break point further out. It did help the intonation. I could tweak around with it and lower the action a bit with it.

I've determined that I could absolutely fix the intonation. It would just be a matter of deciding what strings I wanted to use (I don't like the tight string tension that it has right now, and that kind of change will affect intonation), what tuning I want to use (I'm a Low G guy... not sure I can get used to High G, even on a soprano), and then tweaking the saddle and the zero fret to get it there.

But, in getting it "moderately close" and playing with both standard high G and a full step lower... I can confidently say that this uke compared to my cheap concert is just... well, awful. Fixing the intonation isn't going to make it sound nice.

So, I'm done.

I will conclude that YES, with patience and creativity, you can fix the intonation on a Waterman. And if you're a good player and strum hard and loud, I'm sure you can have a lot of fun with it. But, if your style is to thumb strum softly (like me), and you're not particularly good (like me), it's going to sound like quiet crap. My wife has never complained about the sound of any of my cheap ukes. This one she flat out said sounded bad. She's not wrong.

merlin666 said:

Are these not super cheap like <$50 and designed to be played in rough environments like literally in the water? Expectations on quality of the instrument should keep that in mind.

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I wouldn’t describe them as super cheap in that for similar money or less you can buy quite a lot of other instruments that can be made to play quite nicely. IMHO if the concept had been better executed then it could have been a better instrument.

I’m uncertain about how rugged these instruments are in practice and have found some pretty inexpensive laminate Ukes that would be hard to break yet can still sound OK. As for waterproof, well yes they might well be unaffected by water but unaffected from a low start point and for a very rarely used application. To my mind ‘waterproof’ is a gimmick and simply a side effect of being moulded plastic, IMHO wood can be made to be waterproof enough for all practical purposes and I don’t have to think very hard for everyday examples.

To my mind this product is overpriced for what it delivers and i believe that it also devalues the Kala brand - which is upsetting to me because I like the brand and have been very pleased with some of their other products. Perhaps I don’t understand the marketing logic of their decisions but that’s the way I see it and to me that approach to sales is not a good one. YMMV.

I don’t exactly throw my money around, indeed I pretty ‘tight’, but it is true that: ‘The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten’.

LorenFL said:

Yes, they're cheap. And Kala knows how to make a GOOD cheap uke. My first uke was a $40 Makala tenor.

Yes, they're designed to be tossed around and to get wet without damage. None of that is the problem. The design is such that over some period of time, the normal tension of the strings pulls the bridge and warps the top destroying what was very likely laser-perfect intonation.
.

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I always wonder who routinely gets their ukulele wet other than white water rafters and surfers who play while waiting for a wave. Otherwise I would think one could just put their uke somewhere dry and sit out in the rain without their uke by their side until it lets up. That's what I do, sit outside in the rain without my ukulele. Seriously, I will bet there are a few that have an uncontrollable desire to sit out in the rain, or under a waterfall, playing a ukulele.

I think you have had some cheap fun messing with it for the price of a meal at a fancy restaurant. It has been an interesting read. When they first came out they were giving them away. I won two of them at ukulele festivals and my wife won one. I gave my two away to people I wanted to discourage from playing the ukulele and my four year old grand daughter plays with the other. Her other grand parents bought her a little plastic guitar at some toy store and looking at it, it appears to be about the same quality as the Waterman. Have fun, I mean, that's what it is all about.

merlin666 said:

Are these not super cheap like <$50 and designed to be played in rough environments like literally in the water? Expectations on quality of the instrument should keep that in mind.

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I think the irritation comes from the fact that a better product wouldn't need to cost more.
My personal opinion is that the mechanical properties of inexpensive thermoplastics aren't going to give a great sound.
But given those limitations, the properties are very well understood, and far more repeatable than in wood.
Everything is a compromise, but that is the advantage plastic has.
Molding tolerances can be held very close, even after accounting for shrinkage during cooling.
There's really no reason for the action on a plastic ukulele to be high, and for it to play out of tune up the neck. It's not like wood, that will shrink and expand with moisture, and differently depending on the orientation of the grain.
And as the OP pointed out, it's not as if it hasn't been done before, and better. So the problems are not only known to be solvable, but previously solved.
And in the time since it was previously solved, in the 50s, there are far better tools available to model not only the response of the top to string tension, but also to help with building a reliable and high-production mold.

So I think it's a disappointment in what might have been.

looks like these got refreshed, new colors (someone was looking for green) and what looks like a REPLACEABLE SADDLE and some new top bracing

Olddiverman said:

My comment was in no way a criticism of this thread. I wish all good luck to anyone who can do anything with a Waterman. It might make a good dustpan.

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Hahahahaha! Well, Olddiverman, having had a Waterman at one time, I'd have to agree that it was a little disappointing.

I think we both admire Loren's industriousness in seeking to give his "a new lease on life."

By the way, your "dustpan" reference reminded me of an occasion, many years ago, on which my Mom made brownies for a family get-together, and, as she was quick to admit, they turned out hard as a brick. One of her wisecracking brothers said, "I'm gonna take one of these home, it'll make a good doorstop."

Doug W said:

LorenFL,

After your experiences, you should apply for a position with KALA and help them retool their Waterman series to correct the intonation.

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I'll second that, Doug!

Rllink said:

I always wonder who routinely gets their ukulele wet other than white water rafters and surfers who play while waiting for a wave. Otherwise I would think one could just put their uke somewhere dry and sit out in the rain without their uke by their side until it lets up. That's what I do, sit outside in the rain without my ukulele. Seriously, I will bet there are a few that have an uncontrollable desire to sit out in the rain, or under a waterfall, playing a ukulele.

I think you have had some cheap fun messing with it for the price of a meal at a fancy restaurant. It has been an interesting read. When they first came out they were giving them away. I won two of them at ukulele festivals and my wife won one. I gave my two away to people I wanted to discourage from playing the ukulele and my four year old grand daughter plays with the other. Her other grand parents bought her a little plastic guitar at some toy store and looking at it, it appears to be about the same quality as the Waterman. Have fun, I mean, that's what it is all about.

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"I gave my two away to people I wanted to discourage from playing the ukulele..."

Hahahahaha! R.L., that is the best line of the day!