Electric uke neck relief (truss rod adjustment)

Jupu

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 31, 2019
Messages
143
Reaction score
0
I couldn't find specific discussion about how much neck relief do people set up for their electric ukes' necks.

The electric guitar general guideline is to have less than 0.3 mm in between the lowest part of the heaviest string and the fret that's halfway, when pressing down on the 1st and 12th (or 14th, or 15th, or last, or wherever the neck joins the body... - it's a bit messy and depends on the source) frets. So a "standard" business card shouldn't fit.

I suppose the uke scale length would mean that that measure should also be shorter. The tenor uke scale length (that my Clearwater, as well as Vorsons and many other solid body ukes are using) is, as we know, about half that of guitar's. If my geometrics is right, the relief should be a bit more than half that of guitar's, no? What measure do you guys use?
 
I set up my Vorson the same as I set up my Strat. You may be able to get away with lower action on a uke since the shorter string will wobble less (assuming the same tension, which probably isn’t the case). It’s within my margin of error. YMMV. My basses are higher, but the play style is different too.

A tenor uke is about half the scale length of a standard bass guitar and about 2/3 the scale length of a guitar.
 
Good point about the differing tension. Come to think of it, I don't have a clue how they'd compare exactly; I currently have 11s on my Clearwater tenor, tuned to dGBE. So probably the tension is lower than it would be on a guitar, tuned to same notes...

And thanks for correcting the scale length difference too, my brain fell asleep there.
 
In my personal experience, I give ukuleles a similar amount of relief (or maybe a tiny bit less) as guitar.

The somewhat "universal" standard is hold a string down (usually 1st string) at the first fret and last fret (it helps if you put a capo on the first fret) and there should be enough space between the string and the 11th fret to fit a thin piece of cardboard (D'addario string packaging cardboard is the standard).

However, what I've found from doing many setups is that there's no "one size fits all" when it comes to setup in general.
The final decision needs to be made from gut feeling on how the instrument feels to play.
It's not black n white either - people prefer different amounts of neck relief.

As a general rule of thumb, there should be at least some observable space between the string and 11th fret when you hold down at 1st and last fret.
If there is no space, then you don't have enough relief.

Once you have some relief, you need to play the instrument and decide from how it 'feels'. Is there any notable "buzz"?

For me, the sweet spot is when there is a minimal amount of buzz when I play the notes very hard, but no buzz when I play normally.

Also, the neck takes about a day to settle after making an adjustment. After setting the neck, you may need to re-assess the next day to see if the neck has moved and re-adjust.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the thorough insight! I'll look into the 11th fret as well, when the adjustment has settled. I tightened the rod earlier today after finding out a business card still fit (snugly) under the strings when testing.

I also might still tighten the strings - it might be that the 11s might have to be tightened higher than dGBE in order to sound good. I might try 12s later, but I'm not convinced my hands can handle the tension...
 
If you're trying to tune to DGBE on a tenor ukulele scale using electric guitar strings, I'd get a 9 set's ADGB (5-4-3-2) strings and tune it to DGBE.
That's generally worked for me in the past. 10's if you want higher tension.
 
From what you have described, the neck seems about right as long as it feels comfortable to play.

The other major factor at play is string action on the individual strings, adjustable at the bridge by turning the little vertical screws up or down (two screws per string)

For a steel string electric ukulele, maybe around 2mm height at the 1st and about 2.25mm at the 4th (middle strings incrementally in between) might be in the ball park for me. Some people prefer lower and some prefer higher.

Ensure to adjust intonation by turning the horizontal screws that change the scale length per string... follow instructions as per doing it for an electric guitar such as a Stratocaster
 
Last edited:
God darn it, the forum deleted my previous post, when I only tried to edit it! I pressed edit and then to the text field - all gone.

So, for future reference, kissing's previous answer might seem out of context, so a brief recap of my now-deleted post that was there before it:

- Detectable space at the 11th: string sleeve fits, business card lifts string a bit
- Some buzzing (maybe individual strings) if strummed hard
- Neck looks straight, no bow to other way

And yes, I'll check the action too. Previously, when I hadn't checked the relief, the action had to be over 3mm at the 12th fret, in order to avoid buzz...

Another problem has been the inequal sensitivity to the mic: 1st string is quieter than others -> lifting the mic, but risks buzzing again if done too much. I don't like the sound of the other mic anyway; perhaps some day I'll find out how to replace it...
 
I used to know the measurements and use feeler gauges to set relief on electric guitars, but been doing them for 30 plus years now - so tend to do them by eye. Sighting down from the nut I kind of 'know' how much concave bow I like to play with. But... an electric uke is a far shorter scale and I am not sure the same would apply. I'd say there should be 'some' bow for steel strings, but probably slighter on a ukulele scale.

not sure that helps much!
 
Thanks Bazmaz, that might well make sense. At least it would agree with my basic understanding of physics... That's largely what one has to rely on, since there is little to no instructions about it online (that I've come across, at least), which is why I started this thread.

Come to think of it, there might be some online resources about mandolins... Hmm.
 
A further pondering is now, when do I know when to stop adjusting? I mean, if there's no bending in the other direction yet, can I keep tightening?

I'm exploring lower tunings and currently have the three thinnest strings of a 12-set, that is: 12-14-18-13, tuned to dGBE (tenor scale). The tightness is quite ok, I think (I'm not a very experienced steel string player, but they do demand a bit more finger strength than fluorocarbons). At least the 1,5 stops lower bEG#C# was too sloppy and buzzy.

I mean, I'm still getting a bit of buzz, when strumming hard, unless I adjust the action to about 3 mm at the 12th fret. So either the nut is too low or the truss rod might still need some adjusting. I'm just scared to tighten the rod too much, especially when I have such heavy strings on.
 
I'll tell you what I would do, but I fancy you won't agree or even like it. If I were in your shoes with a truss rod that needed tweaking, I would just go to my local luthier, throw down a big-headed Benjamin 100-dollar bill and say adjust the truss rod and fix any frets that need fixing. Then I would pick it up and be happy. My time is worth too much to me to waste it on fussing with nugatory concerns like that.
 
There's much sense in that, ripock. I wouldn't mind a pro checking the thing otherwise as well.

I'm still a bit undecided about the tuning and string gauge though; I imagine the lower-than-standard tuning might come in handy sometimes, but will it confuse me too much, will it stand out enough as an instrument, as compared to a guitar (which I don't play though),...

The gauge and tuning would probably be better decided before having it set up, let alone carve a new nut...
 
I'll tell you what I do electonically. However I have to say I don't know what I'm doing--for example, I've never played guitar a day in my life. What I do is completely arbitrary but it works. For amplification I have a 75 watt Blackstar. I've been told that is waaaaaay too much amplifier for me...but it works. For strings, I just buy "11's"; I don't know what that means. I merely heard someone else say that, so I repeated it. I do get Ernie Ball Slinkies because that's what people in bands used when I was in high school. I throw away the two bass strings and tune my electric uke to DGBE (or DFAD when I want to use slide in open D minor). That's it. Obviously I am admittedly a moron and have absolutely no idea what I'm doing, but it works. I am telling you this to demonstrate that it doesn't have to be difficult and complicated. Even though I have the electonic uke tuned DGBE, I don't even know how to play a baritone. I just play it like it is in GCEA. I know I am never playing in the key that I think I am playing in (I play primarily in E, but that means I am playing in B with that baritone tuning).

I'm just writing this to give you permission to have fun. I'm a numbskull with a fuzz pedal and a Cry Baby. Yes, judgmental guitar players would look down on me, but I scare my cats and annoy my neighbors. That's all that matters to me with an electonic ukulele.
 
Is this a steel stringed electric uke? Steel stringed ukes need incredibly little relief. The neck is very short and string tension is relatively high, so there isn't much displacement that you need to accomodate. It's also pretty common to set them up with very low action. I just finished one that's set to 1.5mm action at the 12th fret, and relief is a scant .2 mm (capo on the 1st and last fret, measured halfway up the fretboard). Nut height is set to give about .5mm clearance over the 1st fret. This uke is strung with 10 - 13 - 17 - 26w and tuned to low G.

If your uke is set up for nylon strings, the setup should be pretty much the same as a typical acoustic uke - most people would aim for between 2 and 3 mm of action and maybe .010+" of relief.

If you're not sure what you're doing, stop adjusting the truss rod until you can measure it and you're comfortable that you're in the right range. If there are other problems going on (fret issues, or action or nut aren't set up correctly), trying to fix them by adjusting the truss rod can lead to a place of confusion and sorrow! Relief should be set prior to action, intonation, or nut height adjustments, but it needs to be set in isolation (capo the first and last frets then measure string clearance in the middle of the neck) otherwise you'll end up in a vicious cycle of adjustments that make your other adjustments seem wrong. Tune, set relief, set nut height, set action, set intonation, and you're done. But none of that should take place until you know you're working with a true instrument (no neck or fret issues) and you've got the strings you'd like for the tuning you're interested in.
 
Last edited:
I just checked a string tension calculator using the strings and tunings you posted above for steel strings and a tenor scale length. Your tensions are all down around 10 pounds which is pretty light for a steel stringed uke - most are in the 12 - 15 pound range. If you want to keep those strings and that tuning, you're going to need higher action and a little more relief. I would aim for 2.25 - 2.5mm action and .5mm relief as a starting point. If you want to keep that tuning, I would trade up a few gauges in strings to get the tension up. Or tune higher than you're trying for now if you want those strings.
 
Thanks, dwizum! Very insightful!

I did measure up the relief somewhat, but I don't know if there are some issues with the neck or frets. And I don't know how to check.

Then again, if the strings are too sloppy now anyway, I can't really trust the rod and neck to work properly anyway, can I?

I checked a calculator myself now. So regardless of the string gauge, one should always aim for the 12-15 range in tension? It seems that I would have to tune 1-1,5 full steps to get the strings to the right ballpark (1 doesn't get all above the 12 but 1,5 puts some over the 15). I think I'll try that, but it sounds already too tight for my hands. Or can one get used to even heavier strings, around 13s or 14s, tuned that tight..?

I might have to humble myself and return to the higher tunings, the 10s or so... Or am I just a wuss?
 
This is one of those things where there are definitely conventions in terms of what's typical, but there is also no single "right" answer and there will always be a big range of configurations that work, sometimes better or worse, for different people.

There's no strict reason why you need to have higher tension than you do now. Playing with lower tension is totally fine. You just need to accept the compromise - you'll need slightly higher action and slightly more relief. If you want really low action, you need more tension (either the same tuning with thicker strings, or keep the strings and go to a higher tuning). That's just the way the tradeoff works. Don't be afraid to experiment and find what's right for you.

Generally, if you really want lower action, switching to thicker strings and keeping the same tuning will probably be perceived as more finger-friendly, since thicker strings will feel less "bitey" in terms of cutting in to your fingertips. If you want the same tuning you're at now and you want to get lower action, try going up one step in string gauge from what you have now. People used to nylon string ukes often try a steel string electric uke and think "wow these strings are under so much tension they really cut my fingers up" when in reality, it's just that steel strings are such small gauges that they feel sharper.

In terms of the fretwork and the neck - that's pretty easy to check. If you have a fret rocker, you can step up the frets one at a time and check for high or low frets. Or if you have a foot long steel striaghtedge or ruler, you can use that - lay it along the neck and look for gaps (indicating a low fret) or see if it rocks (indicating a high fret). In a neck with a truss rod, this should be done with the rod in the slack position, i.e. putting no tension on the neck so the neck is flat. Just based on what you've described, I'd be willing to bet that your neck is fine, and the buzzing you've encountered when trying to get a low action is just because you're running at a lower than typical tension.

But - importantly - I would stop adjusting anything until you get the hang of measuring relief on the neck with feeler gauges or whatever method you find easiest. It's easy to have a very wrong relief setting and have that cause problems. The correct relief settings are usually achieved by very, very small truss rod adjustments - we're talking things in the range of an eighth of a turn in either direction. You should never have to just sit there cranking on it over and over and over to get the right setting.
 
Oh! Now that you say it like that it makes sense: I can lower the action if I tighten the strings. I somehow hadn't thought of it like that.

Like I've described, I have gotten the relief smaller but still detectable with truss rod tightening, even with less than typical string tightness. I would estimate I've tightened it less than one full turn in total.

In "common sense" world, where a tighter truss rod leads to a smaller relief, up to a point where the neck is straight and then starts bending the other way, I'm not near the maximum yet.

If, on the other hand, this truss rod works less intuitively and maxes out before the relief disappears and the neck starts bending the other way, I might have tightened it too much. How to know? Should I take the string tension off and see what happens? And then loosen the rod too?

I have no clue of the rod's history - I bought this second hand. I have had the need for higher action the whole time. I think I started with a set of 9s (or 10s, I'm not sure), tuned to gCEA. Actually, there was a wound low-G when I got it, but I changed it fast.
 
I will at least tighten the current strings the 1-1,5 steps now and wait for what happens. Then I'll get a feeler gauge during the weekend and then think about the set of 13s or 14s (I wonder which will be more "finger friendly" - the 14s..?).
 
Top Bottom