A new big baritone and a question

Hi All, new to the forums so I hope this is all ok and in the right place!

Bit of a philosophical question here: What makes a Ukulele?

A while back a customer of mine brought a tenor guitar (I think is was an ashbury) into the shed to discuss adding a fifth string for an octave-pair 4th, converting it to nylon and using it as a big baritone ukulele for the group he plays with. I found this quite an interesting idea.

Quite a few years back I drew up a set of plans (and even made a mould) for a requinto guitar that I never got around to making, and in size it fell somewhere between this tenor guitar and a regular baritone uke so I fancied having a go at a big five string baritone. For a little over a year it's been one of a few side projects bubbling away in the background around actual work, but what with the pandemic and everything work's been a bit quiet and I found time to get it finished up. It got it's first strings on Friday.



The result is a 21 1/4" (540mm) scale with a 1.5" nut and very guitar-like proportions. The whole things about 34.5" (875mm-ish) top to tail. I'm anticipating difficulties finding a case for it. The photo's aren't the best, the shed has whacking great daylight tubes that make lighting pics a bit of a challenge, but hopefully you get the idea. I'll get around to having some better ones taken at some point.

The thing is I enjoyed making it but I am finding it a bit difficult to evaluate how successful it is. I am the first to admit that I don't know all that much about the ukulele, I don't make many and I don't really play them (I like them plenty, they just aren't my instrument), so I'm not 100% sure what a player looks for in a good baritone. I do make nylon-strung guitars and tenor guitars among other things so from my point of view I kind of feel like I have made a small, nylon strung, tenor guitar when I wanted to make a ukulele. And I'm not even sure if that makes sense!

I guess what I am really asking is does it count; have I made a ukulele? And, bearing in mind it's a bit tricky to put it in the hands of someone who can actually play the ukulele right now, can you help give me an idea of whether its a good ukulele or not?

It's into that gray area for sure. I have seen other instruments with that scale or longer called baritones and some called tenor guitar. I would tend to call it tenor guitar, but with DGBE tuning, the function will be pretty much the same, so the name isn't all that important, is it? I think it would depend on the people in the room.

I had a 23" scale baritone made by George Thomas in Bellingham, Wa.. It's basically a tenor guitar built for nylon strings.

I call it a contra baritone. Sounds wonderful. Can see the size difference between it and the Chennell baritone.

I agree with Jim; no matter the name, it looks like a great instrument.

Thanks for the replies. I like contra baritone, perhaps if we're going down the operatic route they should be baryton-noble? Lovely instruments, I do think that in spite of the fact that it's bigger than the one I've just made that Thomas looks more like a ukulele to me. Maybe it's as simple as the headstock or the bridge?

Regarding tunings, I currently have it in open D (DF#AD), which is obviously a little lower than regular DGBE, but I know my way around it a little bit more, ironically I often keep a tenor guitar in it. I have it strung with fairly normal baritone in DGBE strings, a mix of the d'Addario folk nylon wounds and some Augustine trebles. The tension is a little higher with the increased sl which I think contributes to it's guitar-y feel but it certainly works around there.

Just curious. Is that a light colored bridge inlay or is the bridge cut out so that the top shows through. I've only seen 1 German classical with windows cut on the wings so that the top shows. Always wanted to try it, but I think that's a tough one to pull off cleanly. Nice job!-Bob

Cheers Bob,

The bridge is cut through so that is the soundboard that you can see - it's how I make most of my bridges, including the guitars - I'm no way near as experienced as many on here but I've got guitars with 10 years on them and there hasn't been a failure yet. It's just cut with a coping saw and some very sharp knives, nothing magic about it. Honestly the only trick to it is making sure that the contact area is good/large enough to take the string tension with the reduced footprint. I've done it on steel strung guitars in the past, so ukulele will manage without too many issues. One of my students once commented that the bridges make my instruments look happy, which is one of the nicest compliments I've ever received!

LOVE IT!!! Great job!!

I realize that this thread is primarily about size. But, Ukuleles seem to come in all sorts of sizes. So, I question the value of identifying the instrument that way. For me, it's all about strings and tuning. IMHO, a Ukulele is a four string instrument, or if more that four strings are present, they must be arranged in four courses. Then there is the issue of tuning. Although Ukuleles can be tuned in alternate ways, the basic tuning is the old "My dog has fleas," or Major 6 Chord tuning, with or without a low 5th. I suppose you could restring a Concert Bass to Ukulele tuning, and it would be a "Ukulele."

With a couple of 6 string guitars for size comparison.

My "baritone uke" started life as a tenor guitar with a scale length a little under 21". When I got it at a yard sale 40 years ago, it was strung with steel strings which I tuned DGBE and gave to my son. He left it in the house when he moved out and I restrung it with nylon strings (the first four from a classical set). I now treat it as a baritone ukulele and that's what I call it.

Here it is 40 years ago:

Should I be calling it a tenor guitar or a baritone uke?

Can I please rifle through your wood stash? Nice looking... ...instrument.

Big baritone is kind of a boring term, isn't it? But that's what luthiers seem to call it when it's tuned the same as baritone uke, but is larger in body, and smaller than a tenor guitar. So maybe you could coin a new term, like the dreadnought for guitar.

Doesn't the term contra denote lower pitch, for musical instruments?

Thanks to everyone for interesting, informative and kind replies!

Interesting one today, I had another 23" tenor come in for a setup, so I took the attached pic whilst I had three of the things in the workshop at the same time - LtR we've got my tenor guitar which has a 620mm/24 2/5" scale and a 12th fret body join, a 'standard' 23" scale tenor and the 21 1/4" big baritone, all tuned in more or less the same region (I keep my tenor in DF#AD, the owner of the other tenor favours DGBD and obviously the uke is in DGBE, but these are fairly interchangeable) - concert uke I thrown in for scale. What did reassure me somewhat is that the ukulele felt and sounded very different to the metal strung tenors to play, so I'm maybe persuading myself that I have in fact successfully made a very big ukulele. The huge variation in neck width I think contributed to this quite a bit.



For what it's worth I do agree that the combination of tuning and having non-metal strings (and to a degree use) is probably more important than size to make it a uke. Not sure about naming conventions - in singers there are historically quite a few sub-categories of baritone, such as a Dramatic Baritone (richer, fuller, darker) etc. I'm quite taken with Baryton-Noble which wikipedia assures me is characterised as describes a part that requires a noble bearing, smooth vocalisation and forceful declamation, all in perfect balance. Bit boastful maybe, but I think these bigger instruments do have strong projection and are quite well balanced. In the mean time I might just call it Barry.

Oh and Printer2, what a thing to ask a guy, you should at least buy me dinner first!

sequoia said:

To me if it is strung with steel strings it is a tenor guitar.

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It is now strung with nylon strings - the first four from classical guitar set.

Potter said:

Thanks to everyone for interesting, informative and kind replies!

Interesting one today, I had another 23" tenor come in for a setup, so I took the attached pic whilst I had three of the things in the workshop at the same time - LtR we've got my tenor guitar which has a 620mm/24 2/5" scale and a 12th fret body join, a 'standard' 23" scale tenor and the 21 1/4" big baritone, all tuned in more or less the same region (I keep my tenor in DF#AD, the owner of the other tenor favours DGBD and obviously the uke is in DGBE, but these are fairly interchangeable) - concert uke I thrown in for scale. What did reassure me somewhat is that the ukulele felt and sounded very different to the metal strung tenors to play, so I'm maybe persuading myself that I have in fact successfully made a very big ukulele. The huge variation in neck width I think contributed to this quite a bit.

View attachment 133498

For what it's worth I do agree that the combination of tuning and having non-metal strings (and to a degree use) is probably more important than size to make it a uke. Not sure about naming conventions - in singers there are historically quite a few sub-categories of baritone, such as a Dramatic Baritone (richer, fuller, darker) etc. I'm quite taken with Baryton-Noble which wikipedia assures me is characterised as describes a part that requires a noble bearing, smooth vocalisation and forceful declamation, all in perfect balance. Bit boastful maybe, but I think these bigger instruments do have strong projection and are quite well balanced. In the mean time I might just call it Barry.

Oh and Printer2, what a thing to ask a guy, you should at least buy me dinner first!

Click to expand...

Potter, I just get "Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator" when I try to view our image.

Not sure what happened there, I have re-uploaded the photo and edited the post.