Vintage Martin ukuleles...

UkerDanno · Apr 15, 2021

I've been having an ongoing debate with people on the "Martin Ukulele" facebook page concerning bar frets and when they were used and discontinued. I was told and found backup documentation that in 1933 Martin put the decal on the headstock and in 1935, they went from bar frets to using T-frets, making mine a '33 or '34. Then during the war years, went back to bar frets for a few years.

Well, there are some people on there that swear by a well-known Martin history book that evidently says that Martin used bar frets until 1947.

I bought my Martin style 0 back in 2013 and was told by the guy I got it from, who was/is some sort of "collector" and he told me it was a 1930's, evidenced by the decal and bar frets. At the time I found documentation that backed that up, but that link, which was a geocities page is gone.

Does anyone have access to or can confirm that information?

ScooterD35 · Apr 15, 2021

The book in question, The Martin Ukulele by Tom Walsh & John King, was exhaustively researched by the authors with full access to the Martin records archive at the factory. It can, without a doubt, be considered the most authoritative source of accurate information with regard to vintage Martin ukuleles.

The book very consistently shows that Martin made the switch from bar frets to T frets on their ukuleles in 1947. There is absolutely no mention of goinging back and forth between the two.

It’s an extremely well researched and written book that I highly recommend for anyone interested in the history of the Martin ukulele. FWIW, one of the authors, Tom Walsh is actually a member of the FB group you mentioned (if it’s the same group I belong to). Try tagging him in your question and see if he responds.

Hope this helps,

Scooter

EDW · Apr 15, 2021

I suppose it is possible that 1947 might mean that is when they permanently stopped using them. I have also heard that conflicting info that you mention. It would be interesting to find out more.

ScooterD35 · Apr 15, 2021

EDW said:
I suppose it is possible that 1947 might mean that is when they permanently stopped using them. I have also heard that conflicting info that you mention. It would be interesting to find out more.

As I said above, get the book. The authors literally held Martin’s production records in their hands and studied them for a couple of years while researching. You simply can’t find a more accurate and authoritative source of information than John and Tom’s book.

Scooter

EDW · Apr 16, 2021

ScooterD35 said:
As I said above, get the book. The authors literally held Martin’s production records in their hands and studied them for a couple of years while researching. You simply can’t find a more accurate and authoritative source of information than John and Tom’s book.
Scooter

I have it. I am just saying that there may be more details

ScooterD35 · Apr 16, 2021

EDW said:
I have it. I am just saying that there may be more details

I don’t understand how there could possibly be “details” about Martin’s production that they would be unaware of. Their records archive is large and incredibly detailed.

Scooter

richntacoma · Apr 16, 2021

ScooterD35 said:
I don’t understand how there could possibly be “details” about Martin’s production that they would be unaware of. Their records archive is large and incredibly detailed.

Scooter

History is socially constructed, and not fact. The poster is seeking alternative perspectives--I think that should be honored, IMHO.

BuzzBD · Apr 16, 2021

I have the book and a vintage Martin style O soprano with the decal and bar frets, so I have scoured the book thoroughly for any clues I can find to accurately date my uke. As far as the factory records are concerned, the authors repeatedly state that the records are very incomplete. And they also stated that the manufacturing process at Martin could be haphazard and the workers would often grab whatever parts that came to hand and would fit the bill. So, the only absolute conclusion I can come to is my uke was made between 1932 and 1947. That said, from the condition of the finish when I received it, I believe it was made in the 30’s, but that is a guess.
Brad

Pukulele Pete · Apr 16, 2021

Wont the tuners give you a good idea of the date ?
Post a pic of the tuners .
Oh , maybe you have wood tuners ?

UkerDanno · Apr 16, 2021

Pukulele Pete said:
Wont the tuners give you a good idea of the date ?
Post a pic of the tuners .

Gladly...and, as Buzz said, mine looks like it's from the 30's...

UkerDanno · Apr 16, 2021

I would like to find the documentation I used initially to determine the age, that stated they used t-frets in 1935.

I realize a lot of people consider that book the bible of Martin ukuleles, but there are also indiscrepancies in the bible.

merlin666 · Apr 16, 2021

This thread peaked my curiosity and I had to learn more about bar frets. It seems to be well documented that bar frets were phased out for Martin guitars in 1934. Luthier discussions suggest that bar frets are a lot more difficult to install than T frets, so it is unlikely that a switch back to this can be implemented easily in a mass production environment. Also, bar frets seem to stabilize the neck and when they switched the steel string guitars over to T frets this went along with inserting steel truss rods into the necks. But this is not necessary for ukes, so if most sources point to 1947 as the year for ukes then I would not doubt that. This does not exclude the possibility that they were experimenting and creating prototypes and small pre-production batches.

Pukulele Pete · Apr 16, 2021

UkerDanno said:
Gladly...and, as Buzz said, mine looks like it's from the 30's...
View attachment 133542 View attachment 133543

Well , the hex nut and black knobs make the tuners look like Waverly's no.2014 , they started in 1948 on styles 1,2,3 ( according to the book )
A pic of the tuner from the side might help.
They may be replacement tuners too , making it harder to date.

Pukulele Pete · Apr 16, 2021

I don't want to sound like a jerk but , . . . take a good look at your frets , The early Martin T frets are very small and can be mistaken for bar frets.

Graham Greenbag · Apr 16, 2021

Very occasionally I use the ‘way back machine’, what a fantastic device it is. I’m curious as to whether the OP might be able to access his missing data (link) via that route ... it’s just a thought and I claim no expertise in the WBM’s use.

EDW · Apr 16, 2021

Dating them can be a puzzle. Even if you assume that tuners are original, there are a variety of factors to consider- frets, stamps, decal, headstock shape, fretboard shape, etc. There are a number of subtle differences to consider

UkerDanno · Apr 16, 2021

Graham Greenbag said:
Very occasionally I use the ‘way back machine’, what a fantastic device it is. I’m curious as to whether the OP might be able to access his missing data (link) via that route ... it’s just a thought and I claim no expertise in the WBM’s use.

Not familiar with the WBM, this is the link I had...

www.geocities.com!?!?!?martin.html

I removed part of that link, because googling it, got me into some kind of virus where mcafee popups keep coming up and running windows defender doesn't clear it out. If you ignore they go away, don't click on strange popups.

Graham Greenbag · Apr 16, 2021

UkerDanno said:
Not familiar with the WBM, this is the link I had...

www.geocities.com/~ukulele/martin.html

I’m not sure that this will work for you but try:
https://web.archive.org/web/20090829115433/http://www.geocities.com/~ukulele/martin.html

If you google wayback machine then you’ll find a few alternatives.

I hope that that helps and frets are mentioned towards the end of the article:

“There are several ways to date your Martin ukulele. Martin put a stamp on the back of the peghead until 1933 and peghead decals first appeared in 1932, so occasionally you will find a ukulele with both the stamp and decal. Bar frets were generally used until 1934, afterwhich they used T-frets. There is a stamp on the inside of the body that, before 1962, reads "C.F. Martin & Co., Nazareth, PA". In 1962, Martin added "Made in USA" to this stamp. Other ways to date them are the inlays on the fingerboard, with early fancy models having diamond shaped inlays and the newer models having small round dots.”

UkerDanno · Apr 16, 2021

Graham Greenbag said:
I’m not sure that this will work for you but try:
https://web.archive.org/web/20090829115433/http://www.geocities.com/~ukulele/martin.html

If you google wayback machine then you’ll find a few alternatives.

I hope that that helps and frets are mentioned towards the end of the article:

“There are several ways to date your Martin ukulele. Martin put a stamp on the back of the peghead until 1933 and peghead decals first appeared in 1932, so occasionally you will find a ukulele with both the stamp and decal. Bar frets were generally used until 1934, afterwhich they used T-frets. There is a stamp on the inside of the body that, before 1962, reads "C.F. Martin & Co., Nazareth, PA". In 1962, Martin added "Made in USA" to this stamp. Other ways to date them are the inlays on the fingerboard, with early fancy models having diamond shaped inlays and the newer models having small round dots.”

Graham, that's it, way to go! Thanks...

UkerDanno · Apr 17, 2021

Pics of my frets and tuners, which have been replaced with Gotoh UPTs...

Vintage Martin ukuleles...

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