Making an Archtop Ukulele- Take Two

BuzzBD

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Around the end of January, my old thread on building an archtop ukulele got a bump. That got me motivated to revisit the process as it has been a while since I have made an archtop instrument. I wanted to start the process by reviewing my old books on the subject, but most of my books are in Oregon. This worked out well however, as both Robert Benedetto (guitar) and Roger Siminoff ( mandolin) have recently released revised editions of their books. So I happily got them and studied them again. The Siminoff book in particular has been updated considerably. The landscape around nylon string archtop instruments has grown considerably since I last explored things. Searching the Web revealed a number of people offering both nylon string archtop guitars and ukuleles. I also discovered that the current thinking in steel string archtop guitar construction has evolved a lot over the last several years. Led by names like Ken Parker, Tom Ribbecke, Steve Grimes and Steve Andersen, the trend seems to be moving to lighter and more rounded instruments than their predecessors. Armed with a number of new ideas and concepts, I have designed and built a tenor archtop ukulele. I will be documenting the process and sharing my ideas in this new thread. Hopefully it will stimulate some conversation and sharing of ideas. More to follow.
Brad
 
I wish I had time to do one along side of you. Guess I will just have to watch.
 
Mahalo for joining the conversation. My goal is to expand the knowledge base of archtop instruments in general and especially delve into nylon stringed archtops. My research finds little nuggets of information now and then, but currently there is not a lot out there. Steve Grimes website states that the top thickness of his nylon archtop guitar is around 4 mm in the center, which leaves me to estimate that they are around 2 mm in the recurve area. Ken Parker states in a lecture that he does not believe that archtop guitars need to be any thicker than flattops. My opinion is while it may be advantageous to build lighter, an archtop requires some mass in the center to generate the power they are capable of. This aids in enhancing the monopole mode of vibration that is most important in how archtop instruments work. For the record, my newest tenor is nominally 2.8 mm thick in the center and 1.8 mm in the recurve area, for both the top and back. I will discuss tap tuning and deflection testing next.
Brad
 
My first successful musical instrument project was rebuilding an old Kay archtop guitar, including hand carving a new top from Engleman Spruce, and making a new neck from laminated Black Walnut and Maple. My top was an even 3.2mm all over. An archtop uke is an intriguing idea. Are Maple and Spruce the de facto woods for an archtop uke, or would Black Cherry or Walnut work OK for the back & sides?
 
Most decent woods are suitable to build guitars with.
 
Aloha tonyturley, good question and thanks for asking it. The short answer is most woods suitable for lutherie will be good for archtop construction. In fact, a lot of the early Gibson mandolins and archtop guitars were made of birch, instead of maple. As a North American company, they relied mostly on local wood. It was not until the Super 400 days that they started using premium materials. That said, it is important to understand that much of the information on archtop construction is based on spruce and maple. I personally have had better success with Engelmann spruce for tops, rather than Sitka spruce for nylon stringed instruments. Also keep in mind that there is a great deal of difference between European maple, big leaf maple and hard eastern USA maple. So really, it is the old adage; what you do with the wood is far more important, than the type and quality of the wood itself.

Also let me stress that there is a lot more to archtop construction than domed tops and backs with F holes. Some of the more important elements include graduated tops and backs with a recurve area around the edge, floating bridge with tailpiece and narrower sides than flattops. It is vital for the builder to understand how archtop instruments function, that the back plays just as important a role as the top in sound production, to have much chance of a successful build.
Brad
 
Aloha tonyturley, good question and thanks for asking it. The short answer is most woods suitable for lutherie will be good for archtop construction. In fact, a lot of the early Gibson mandolins and archtop guitars were made of birch, instead of maple. As a North American company, they relied mostly on local wood. It was not until the Super 400 days that they started using premium materials. That said, it is important to understand that much of the information on archtop construction is based on spruce and maple. I personally have had better success with Engelmann spruce for tops, rather than Sitka spruce for nylon stringed instruments. Also keep in mind that there is a great deal of difference between European maple, big leaf maple and hard eastern USA maple. So really, it is the old adage; what you do with the wood is far more important, than the type and quality of the wood itself.

Also let me stress that there is a lot more to archtop construction than domed tops and backs with F holes. Some of the more important elements include graduated tops and backs with a recurve area around the edge, floating bridge with tailpiece and narrower sides than flattops. It is vital for the builder to understand how archtop instruments function, that the back plays just as important a role as the top in sound production, to have much chance of a successful build.
Brad

Hi, Bradford.

I'm not a builder, never will be one, but I'm wondering: With a carved top on a uke, would you be placing a Sound Post, as members of the violin family use?

I'm told that lets the back resonate along with the top, and enhances the sound.

I don't know; I'm pretty sure that it is illegal in at least 17 states for me to attempt to pull a bow across the strings of ANY instrument.


-Kurt​
 
Aloha Kurt, nice to hear from you. The only instance I know of where sound posts have been added to archtop guitars, has been to cure feedback issues when amplified. The main vibrational modes of bowed instruments are different from fretted archtop ones. In violins, the top twists back and forth sideways in the direction it is being bowed. The soundpost acts as a pivot point, while the bass bar side of the top is free to move. The main vibrational mode of a fretted archtop is the monopole mode, where the top (and back) move up and down, acting much like an air pump. A soundpost in them would greatly impede the sound production. The F holes in the violin family aid in the twisting motion. The consensus of many luthiers is that F holes in other archtop instruments tend to enhance feedback issues when amplified.
Brad
 
Brad, do you consider that the sound of an archtop uke is just different from a conventional uke or does it sound better? An archtop certainly looks good but I havent heard a convincing argument for making one. How should a good archtop sound unamplified? Will it have more or less volume, will it have a fuller sounder, will it be tonally balanced or favour a particular frequency range?

I've read all about jazz guitars, have Benedetto's guitar book, have made one archtop uke (disappointing) but have yet to hear anyone loudly extoll the virtues of an archtop uke! Is there something to be gained in making one?
 
Brad, do you consider that the sound of an archtop uke is just different from a conventional uke or does it sound better? An archtop certainly looks good but I havent heard a convincing argument for making one. How should a good archtop sound unamplified? Will it have more or less volume, will it have a fuller sounder, will it be tonally balanced or favour a particular frequency range?

I've read all about jazz guitars, have Benedetto's guitar book, have made one archtop uke (disappointing) but have yet to hear anyone loudly extoll the virtues of an archtop uke! Is there something to be gained in making one?

I'm not Brad and I'm not an expert, but here's what I've read. Archtop guitars are traditionally prized by those who do a lot of finger picking, as they tend to have little sustain and each note is discreet as a result. Jazz guitarists are among those who traditionally favor archtop guitars, but musicians have been known to incorporate them into many music types, including blues and rock and roll. https://caomhainn.blogspot.com/2020/06/what-is-good-and-bad-about-archtop-jazz.html Archtops were the precursor to the electric guitar and many of the first amplified guitars were archtops. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_guitar (under history). I would assume the same is true of ukes. Discreet notes, low sustain, good for finger style. Think about a violin, it's an archtop, but if you hear it plucked, each note is more like a drum beat in terms of its length. Violin sustain is created by the bow. Oh, and I'll add, one of the original reasons for archtop guitars was they're loud, so before amplification, they were what you used in a big band. Have no idea if that's true for ukes, too, but it bears mentioning.
 
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Hey Greenscoe, I will be the first to admit that building archtop instruments is a bit of a Holy Grail exercise. It is difficult to explain to those that have not heard an exceptional archtop in person. They can have a power and presence that is unmatched by other instruments. I have had the chance to hear and examine 3 Loar mandolins. I have also heard 3 archtop guitars, a Gibson L-12, a D’Angelico New Yorker and a James D’Aquisto that were absolutely magical. On the other hand, I have built and played/worked on other maker’s instruments that were pretty ordinary. Ken Parker in one of his YouTube lectures said that John D’Angelico has been quoted as saying that one out of four or five of the guitars he made were good guitars! So far for me, with the exception of the first few, most of 150 mandolins I have made were good and a handful were excellent. All of 7 archtop guitars I made were ordinary at best and I am 3 out of 6 with archtop ukuleles. The main purpose of this project is learn how to consistently make good/great archtop ukuleles. The specific sound I am seeking is yet to be determined, but loud and powerful with good balance is the goal. To that end, I am employing a number of techniques such as tap tuning, deflection testing and voicing procedures.
Brad
 
Hey Greenscoe, I will be the first to admit that building archtop instruments is a bit of a Holy Grail exercise. It is difficult to explain to those that have not heard an exceptional archtop in person. They can have a power and presence that is unmatched by other instruments. I have had the chance to hear and examine 3 Loar mandolins. I have also heard 3 archtop guitars, a Gibson L-12, a D
 
Hey Greenscoe, I will be the first to admit that building archtop instruments is a bit of a Holy Grail exercise. It is difficult to explain to those that have not heard an exceptional archtop in person. They can have a power and presence that is unmatched by other instruments. I have had the chance to hear and examine 3 Loar mandolins. I have also heard 3 archtop guitars, a Gibson L-12, a D’Angelico New Yorker and a James D’Aquisto that were absolutely magical. On the other hand, I have built and played/worked on other maker’s instruments that were pretty ordinary. Ken Parker in one of his YouTube lectures said that John D’Angelico has been quoted as saying that one out of four or five of the guitars he made were good guitars! So far for me, with the exception of the first few, most of 150 mandolins I have made were good and a handful were excellent. All of 7 archtop guitars I made were ordinary at best and I am 3 out of 6 with archtop ukuleles. The main purpose of this project is learn how to consistently make good/great archtop ukuleles. The specific sound I am seeking is yet to be determined, but loud and powerful with good balance is the goal. To that end, I am employing a number of techniques such as tap tuning, deflection testing and voicing procedures.
Brad

Thanks for that reply. I have yet to hear an "exceptional" archtop instrument and so really don't know why the pursuit on the archtop has become something of the "Holy Grail". If a "loud, powerful and well balanced" instrument is the goal then perhaps I should try again. I will be following this build and hope we can all learn something from it.
 
I very much appreciate you joining the conversation. Even though your first archtop ukulele build was disappointing, I am sure that the experience gave you some insights that could be valuable to the group. Going through life, we all make mistakes, the real trick is not making the same mistake twice.

When I first started making mandolins, I was going by Roger Siminoff’s book, and he is an advocate of tap tuning. As I did not have a strobe tuner at the time, I did not engage in the process. In the meantime, the technology has advanced and I have discovered that the IPhone with Pedersen’s IStroboSoft app is capable of tap tuning. I have been using this to measure my instruments body resonance for some years now, but with this build, I used my phone and recorded a number of tap tuning measurements. These measurements on their own do not convey a lot of information. But the idea is, if you make a good instrument and have measured and recorded the results, you have a basis to duplicate the instrument. I also invested in a deflection testing gauge from StewMac and performed some deflection tests as well. So far, I have built an archtop tenor ukulele and have tuned it up in the white. I am very pleased with the results so far. It is loud with a nice presence and pleasant timbre. I am going to make some minor tweaks, add the bindings and other decorations. I have taken pics of the progress and will start posting them shortly. Where we go after that is to be determined.
Brad
 
Here are some notes on the design.

Woods- I have always had good success using Engelmann spruce for the top. And as most of my archtop instruments the sides and back have been big leaf maple, I went with that.

Bracing- with conventional bracing you have the option of X or parallel braces. And with parallel bracing whether the bass and treble bars are at different angles. With these curved, laminated braces, I am attempting to activate more of the top at the edges, while supporting the bridge as conventional bracing does.

Oval vs. F holes- Like Ken Parker I have wondered, why go to the trouble of carving a delicate recurve area around the entire perimeter of the top, only to decouple a third of the area with F holes. I have previously made a few mandolins with oval sound holes, so I went with that.

Neck- Another idea borrowed from Ken. My neck is a bolt on neck, reinforced with carbon fiber. The action can be easily adjusted by shimming the neck. This eliminates the need for the metal posts and wheels on the bridge. The bridge is a two piece tent design, that is hollow in the center.

Tailpiece- made from ebony and brass. It is anchored by a 1/4” brass rod inserted into the heel block. This allows the tailpiece to pivot from side to side and some movement up and down, while restricting the up movement to allow for more down pressure on the bridge when the strings are tightened.

Brad
 
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