Want to find sound of old Aquila Nylgut for Charango

pinkmoon

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UPDATE: Go to the next page to read my solution - Seaguar Premier fishing leader in various gauges.

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Sorry this isn't about the uke specifically but it's probably something people here can help with.

So two and a half years ago I bought a bunch of Aquila 1CH Charango String sets for my 39.4 cm scale charango. I didn't realize how much I loved the sound until I replaced them with the new version of them. The ones I was using must have either been extremely old or they changed the formula completely in the last 2 years or so. These new 1CH are nothing like the old ones at all. Actually the 2CH for Charango they make now is more similar to what were clearly labeled "1CH" previously.

The old strings were even thinner than the new 2CH (even though they were clearly labeled 1CH) and they were yellowish in color and totally opaque. They were really bright to the point where I needed to change my mic setup but in the end it was that brightness that made it sound so special! The new nylgut 2CH have a bright plastic attack and less bright sustain, they feel heavier, and the notes become much more dead up the neck. So the old strings were bright in sustain not just attack - they were almost a bit metallic but still had that warm nylgut attack.

If anyone has any of these old 1CH yellowish strings I'd love to buy them off you because I can't find them anywhere online. All the vendors seem to be selling the new ones. Or probably more productively I need to find a replacement. I haven't tried the fluorocarbon inspired Sugar strings by Aquila so it's possible that would be a better fit... but certainly that is not my guess since the old strings were clearly "NYLGUT"...

I attached a photo of the new ones versus the old yellow ones I prefer.

I have tried medina artigas rectified nylon and the attack of the string is even worse than these new Nylgut ones and the sustain isn't that bright either.They just sound plucky then dull. I guess this instrument requires very thin strings.

So what I've done is ordered Savarez Alliance KF .30mm - KF .69mm in hopes that fluorocarbon will be thin and dense enough to get that sound again and hopefully without the plastic attack of these newer nylgut.

Has anyone had a similar experience with Aquila / Nylgut? What did you do? What are other brands I should check out that have something similar but with very thin diameters?
 

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Mivo, the guy that runs Aquila, is a member here and if you send him a private message then he might eventually pick it up and respond. (Edit. Should be Mimmo and my thanks to EDW below for pointing that out).

IIRC the original Nylgut Strings (which I’ve heard of but don’t recall seeing) were clear-ish and were copied by various people and sold as Aquila. To make that copying more difficult Aquila added pigment to their strings and New Nylgut was born and is still sold today. Later Super Nylgut became available and I quite like it, the slight difference (to New Nylgut) makes all the difference to me.

I hope that this gives you a start on getting back to the original strings that you liked. Remember too that fake Aquilas are being sold to unsuspecting customers - I’ve been caught that way myself.

https://forum.ukuleleunderground.co...ackaged-Aquila-strings&highlight=Fake+Aquilas
https://forum.ukuleleunderground.co...an-fake-Aquila-strings&highlight=Fake+Aquilas
https://forum.ukuleleunderground.co...lele-Lava-Series/page3&highlight=Fake+Aquilas
https://forum.ukuleleunderground.com/showthread.php?117155-More-about-fake-Aquila-strings
 
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You are not alone. A lot of banjo people complain about the variations in Aquila over time.
 
I bought the 2CH sets from Strings and Beyond which Aquila said is a trusted reseller. I have purchased them from like 5 different vendors at this point and they are all like this.

I will message Mivo and also try fluorocarbon.
 
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I would really appreciate hearing anyone else who has noticed this difference and likes it or not so much. Not a lot of people to talk to charango strings about haha.
 
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Enrico Imbalzano from Aquila Corde says "I have been researching the history of the Charango strings with our production team, and I have learned that unfortunately there’s no stock of the very old Charango strings and they cannot be reproduced because since then the raw materials have been changed by the supplier."

I don't know why they changed them. The old strings just look like NNG but I guess they are not NNG.

He says: "Considering you need to use them on modern instruments, to have slightly more stiff and resistant strings, you could also consider NGH strings, used on harps and based on the same material of NNG."

To complicate things, someone from Aquila Strings USA suggested:
"I believe that the history is that the charango sets were originally NG, then they switched to SuperNylgut, which is probably the one you liked, then they switched back to NNG, which is about the same thing as the old NG with minor formula changes."

My sets had no dates on them and may have been really old. This is what the old set package looked like: super_nylgut_package_back.jpg
What is most odd is that these 1CH sets are actually as thin if not thinner than the new 2CH sets.
This is what the strings looked like compared to new ones again: (yellow is old one) new_vs_old_1CH.jpg
 
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If you have not done it already then I suggest that you supply the photo of the string packet to Aquila. The bar code on the envelope may well give unique details and enable them to check their records for string gauge sizes.

Material availability will change from time to time and Aquila will (understandably) reserve the right to improve and change their product. Such changes can frustrate customers, me included, but ‘that’s life’. Sometimes changes are we’ll documented and sometimes details are lost as products evolve, well that’s my experience of development work.

I think that you’ve done very well with the support that you have received from Aquila to date.
 
Yeah that's a good call to send a photo of the original package that I liked the sound of.
And you are right! I've been frustrated but Enrico and others have been super nice to try to help. I just never had a product like this change so suddenly.
 
Yes, it’s Mimmo, not me! :) Okay, now I understand the context of the PM, too.
 
You could try the actual gut strings that Aquila make. But they cast an arm & a leg and don't last long.

Talk to the folks at stringsbymail.com They may be able to come up with some suggestions for you.
 
OK thanks to this awesome community I got the idea to try Seaguar Premier fishing line. Someone even mentioned they used it on charango once but didn't elaborate on how well it worked. Well after trying everything possible this is definitely the best by far.

(Just to recap because I keep editing this: I tried Dogal D114 - nice nylon sound with perfect intonation but a bit too tense for my long scale of 39.4 cm, La Bella C80 - way too high tension, bad intonation, Medina Artigas 1230 - good intonation but a bit tense and a plucky attack with too dull decay (some really love this set though), RECENT Aquila 1CH - slightly plastic attack, not as good sustain and too tense compared to old 1CH, RECENT Aquila 2CH - still not good sustain but better feel on the long scale, slightly plastic attack, and finally Savarez Alliance KF which had a metallic attack, dark sustain, not musical feel or sound, and are very expensive as single strings.)

The Seaguar Premier is better than the old Aquila 1CH even. The intonation is perfect. And trust me I am PICKY about intonation because the charango, like a mandolin, demands it. The sustain and volume is definitely better. The attack sounds VERY similar to the old Aquila Nylgut but is a little less plucky. It has a MUCH better quality to the attack, sustain, and feel compared to Savarez Alliance. I was particularly surprised by that since Savarez Alliance is also fluorocarbon. The Seaguar Premier feels much softer to play, with much less metallic "ping" in the attack, and is much better for vibrato compared to the Savarez Alliance.

For the price, intonation, sustain, feel, and tone of it I wouldn't use anything else at this point. It is easy enough to play bar chords even on my 39.4 cm scale instrument (tuned to standard tuning).

The main issue with the strings so far is that they are more fickle - I did a bad job tying one of the thinnest 20 lb strings to the bridge and it came undone, and after retying it to the bridge again it came apart the next day. Then another, different 20 lb string broke a week later. I have been strumming quite intensely on them lately but this brittle nature is not ideal.

I think I'll try the Gold line 20 lb which is slightly thinner just to see if it improves anything. I suppose I could go to something like Salmon STS but that stuff is WAY thicker than premier so I doubt it would sound as bright and with as much sustain - it also doesn't have DSF (double structure fluorocarbon) which I suspect is a big part of why the Premier works. Someone told me that Blue gets wooly sounding with fraying after a couple months or so.

Either way I'd rather replace these strings every couple weeks than have to deal with the expense or problems with other strings I've tried. In the end it really only seems like the 20 lb strings are having any issue. 50 yards of 20 lb is so cheap. The only other issue I don't love about this approach is it is wasteful and bad for the environment.

Here are the gauges used of Seaguar Premier leader:

E 20 LB .37 mm
A 30 LB .47 mm
E 50 /20 LB .62 mm / .37 mm
C 25 .40 mm
G 40 .57 mm

The tension of the strings is by no means perfectly even but it's not bad either.

This set should work with 37 or 38 scale lengths I think.

They also work extremely well on my Ronroco (mine is 45 cm scale length) tuned DGBEB but up a gauge for every string:

B 25
E 40
B 60 / 25
G 30
D 50

So yeah I'm just super impressed. I can't believe the sound I have - especially from the Ronroco which has never shimmered this much ever. At least with the Charango I had an old set I liked but I never liked the sound of my Ronroco with Aquila 3CH because my scale length is again a bit long (they say it's for 42-43 and mine is 45 cm). The Medina Artigas 1265 set for Ronroco is OK but definitely darker and has less sustain.
 
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