Baritone in 5 th query

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Willthefifth

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Ive been playing a clearwater baritone (5 ths)for years now and its seen better days , numerous repairs , so im looking to upgrade . So i had the ohana bk 70 R in mind . However i just read a comment that put this in doubt .
The comment was in relation to a kahana spruce baritone not working with fifths tuning. So my question really is why might this be ? I dont want to spend 350 to find that the uke doesnt respond well to 5 th tuning eaDG

Why might the clearwater work so well but not tha kahana ? I presume its physics , can any one explain or reasure me as the Ohana is an online purchase . Thanks
 
I personally wouldn't worry about it. Worst case scenario is that you have a wolf-tone wherein the resonance of the sound board is interfering with the resonance of one of the open strings. If that's the case, all you have to do is alter the tuning slightly from eaDG to d#g#C#F#.
 
No its fifths: eaDG or GDae depending in which way you look at it, but the convention is small letters are higher notes.
CGda is also fifths but like a viola( or one octave below viola. )Where as my tuning is one octave below violin, like tenor banjo, I play Irish music.
This specific tuning is essential so i couldnt flatten it a semi tone.
Cheers
 
It's all in the strings so I'm not sure why it "wouldn't work" unless it was an oddity with a particular instrument like ripock suggested.

If you're getting the Ohana as an online purchase, and you have the option of using Mim's Ukes, do that. You could have her do the setup with the strings you want and check for any badness before it even gets sent to you.
 
Willthefifth said:
No its fifths: eaDG or GDae depending in which way you look at it, but the convention is small letters are higher notes.
CGda is also fifths but like a viola( or one octave below viola. )Where as my tuning is one octave below violin, like tenor banjo, I play Irish music.
This specific tuning is essential so i couldnt flatten it a semi tone.
Cheers
Click to expand...

Thanks now you are making my head spin as I was going low to high and didn't even realize that the other way round it was fifths. That is my learning for today.
 
Will-

I am curious about what string gages you are using on a baritone ukulele to attain GDAE one octave below a violin, as I tune my sopranos GDAE the same pitch as a violin.

I could never get a low G to be anything but flabby on my 20-inch scale baritones.

-Wiggy

<Update #1>

GDAE on a baritone:

The normal DGBE high E is 1 octave below violin high E. A 5th below that is A which could be a baritone G string tuned up one step to A (or use a slightly thinner gage - no problem.) A 5th below the A would be D, so just use a normal baritone D for that.

All doable; however:

The 5th low G (103.8hz) is the same pitch as a normal guitar low E played at the 3rd fret. This is a very heavy string, and on a 20" scale would need to be even heavier. I've sacrificed more than 1 baritone nut/bridge trying to get a G string large enough to be playable. Thus, my dilemma. (Note: I have never heard or played a 6-string baritone.)

...removed superfluous comments.

Yes, there are tenor guitars, but their fret spacing is very difficult to form 5th (think mandolin) chords.

-W

<Update #2>

Found this: https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/threads/64618-Baritone-uke-to-Tenor-Octave-mando-GDAE-tuning

Much of its discussion is just like this thread. I'm about 2 days away from ordering another baritone. I am determined to make it work this time.

<Update #3> 29-Jul, 2021

While the baritone sounded acceptable in GDAE, I found the reach for mandolin chords to be too much. I went back to standard baritone strings and tuning. Oh well, it was fun.

-Wiggy
 
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Classical guitar set gives GCFBbDG on 6 string baritone so if you used the 6th, 5th, 3rd, and 2nd that should give you GDAE starting at G2
 
Yes up till now thats what ive done but its not ideal so im in the process of making up a set from singles . Ill get back to you when i have it sorted . The A string is too tight in th D role and so is the b on the e role . Watch this space
 
Wiggy said:
Will-

I am curious about what string gages you are using on a baritone ukulele to attain GDAE one octave below a violin, as I tune my sopranos GDAE the same pitch as a violin.

I could never get a low G to be anything but flabby on my 20-inch scale baritones.

-Wiggy

<update>

GDAE on a baritone:

The normal DGBE high E is 1 octave below violin high E. A 5th below that is A which could be a baritone G string tuned up one step to A (or use a slightly thinner gage - no problem.) A 5th below the A would be D, so just use a normal baritone D for that.

All doable; however:

The 5th low G (103.8hz) is the same pitch as a normal guitar low E played at the 3rd fret. This is a very heavy string, and on a 20" scale would need to be even heavier. I've sacrificed more than 1 baritone nut/bridge trying to get a G string large enough to be playable. Thus, my dilemma. (Note: I have never heard or played a 6-string baritone.)

I wish that I would have tried re-entry gDAE... but the "sacrificees" are now gone.

If they can make 6-string baritones that are tuned like a guitar, why can't someone build a 4-string specifically for GDAE? Yes, I will be watching this space:)

Yes, there are tenor guitars, but theie fret spacing is very difficult to form 5th (think mandolin) chords.

-W
Click to expand...


Yes the bridge came off at one point but i just superglued it back on, after many years with extra heavy strings the body has swollen a little . Still playable .

I was useing heavy guage savarez with the b tuned up to e . .033 compared with a aquila bari top e of .027! Roughly .
Ill try .029/30/31
I also tune my GD to AEae sometmes so looking for strings that will do this . Still working on the list .
The savarez E is .043 so im buying .038/9/40 to try . The A savarez is .035 so im getting .029/30/31 from the top of my head .
 
ubulele said:
As I see it, the problem is less that the tension of the D and E strings is too high, but that the tension differential from the other two strings is too noticeable. Be that as it may...

I gather your desired tuning is G2 D3 A3 E4. The D and E are the same pitches as for the 4th and 1st strings of normal bari linear G tuning (D3 G3 B3 E4), so one solution is to mix these two strings from a bari set with a 6th and 2nd guitar single. If you find the tension of the (bari) wound D string still too high, you might consider a linear all-fluorocarbon set, like Worth CB or BB (clear bari or brown bari). Just switching to the clear fluorocarbons may lower the tension to your sweet spot, though this string will not have the same brightness of tone as with a wound string (in my experience, it's too lax and thuddy, but other people seem to find it quite satisfactory, or Worth, Living Water et al. wouldn't make such sets). The browns are more pliant and may feel less tense still.

Another option would be to use the 5th and 1st strings from a lower-tension guitar set. Using the 6th and 2nd strings from the same set would not be appropriate here, because they'd be even laxer, and the relative difference in tension from their neighbors is the very source of the problem. Sadly, lower-tension strings are hard to find as singles, so you'd probably have to buy a full set and then a couple of normal (or better still, high-tension) singles for the other two strings.

As for the E string, you might consider a tenor 1st string single. Here's the reasoning:

Tenor scale "starts" at about the 3rd fret of a bari. Thus, a tenor 1st string (A), if put on a bari and tuned to identical tension would sound three semitones lower (F#), which is a whole step above what you want. I routinely downtune my tenors a whole step to Bb tuning, and this lowered tension works fine, so a tenor 1st string tuned on a bari to E should be less tense (more like the 4th and 2nd strings in your tuning) but not too lax. The main concern might be the length, but most tenor strings are sufficiently long to fit a bari.
Click to expand...
M
Thanks , my question was actually about why 2 spruce top baritones might resdond so differently. To the same set of strings?

The particular string question is an aside. Ive a lot of strings ordered so should get it sorted to my like sooner or later .
But the query is do i go for the ohana or another clearwater which gas proven itself with this set up. I also emailed aquila to see if they could sort me out with a good set .
 
Willthefifth said:
M
Thanks , my question was actually about why 2 spruce top baritones might resdond so differently. To the same set of strings?

The particular string question is an aside. Ive a lot of strings ordered so should get it sorted to my like sooner or later .
But the query is do i go for the ohana or another clearwater which gas proven itself with this set up. I also emailed aquila to see if they could sort me out with a good set .
Click to expand...

Have you just read about this supposed issue or is this something you experience yourself? I think this Ohana uke is an entry level model and not so much an upgrade. So if you are comfortable with the clearwater and it works well just get a new one.
 
Supposed.....thats why im asking

ohana bk 70 R both solid spruce top, laminate aide rose or walnut for the ohana While the clearwater is round plastic back.
Ohana 350 or 310€
Clearwater works out At 250€ So yes i suppose not so much in it money wise.
So its a gamble with the ohana. But it looks lovely :)
I wanted a laminate side so i can instal the soundwave system.though the plastic also will work .
Would you have another recommendation? Its not really about the money, i could spend more if i was sure it would work well in 5ths.
You probably think im silly but apart from the spruce top Ideally id like the classical style head, and abalone around the sound hole. :) which the ohana has and has a good review elsewhere.

https://www.gotaukulele.com/2016/07/clearwater-ucw7bpu-roundback-baritone.html
https://www.gotaukulele.com/2017/02/ohana-bk-70-baritone-ukulele-review.html
 
Last edited:
Willthefifth said:
Supposed.....thats why im asking

ohana bk 70 R Nearly Twice the price of the clearwater, both solid spruce top, laminate aide rose or walnut for the ohana While the clearwater is round plastic back.
Ohana 350
Clearwater 150 (plus import tax at 50) And postage.
So its a gamble with the ohana. But it looks lovely :) do you not think its really an upgrade?
I wanted a laminate side so i can instal the soundwave system.though the plastic also will work .
Would you have another recommendation? Its not really about the money, i could spend more if i was sure it would work well in 5ths.
You probably think im silly but apart from the spruce top Ideally id like the classical style head, and abalone around the sound hole. :) which the ohana has and has a good review elsewhere.

https://www.gotaukulele.com/2016/07/clearwater-ucw7bpu-roundback-baritone.html
https://www.gotaukulele.com/2017/02/ohana-bk-70-baritone-ukulele-review.html
Click to expand...

If you really want to upgrade and are attracted to Ohana then the Marcy Marxer model may be a good choice. It's not spruce topped, but Marcy is one of the most accomplished players of instruments in fifth tuning in North America. So I would not be surprised if her signature baritone might be top in that tuning as well. She even offered her own personal uke for sale, but is likely gone by now. I think they already have electronics built in too.
 
Last edited:
Ok, Im in europe though so too far for me.

The choice is between the two really, i think were i to upgrade from here id get one hand made .but really baritone is not my main gig anymore, i tend to travel with a soprano and im hoping the new concerto will replace the soprano if i can get the strings sorted.
Were i living in Ireland again the baritone would become my main string gig, but after 30 yrs im selling up and heading for warmer climes so ....

I got the clearwater again! Watched the 2 reviews and ..... im giving the old one to a 10 yr old .
Thanks everyone
 
Last edited:
Good going, Will.

You convinced me to give baritone GDAE 5ths one more try so it could be 1 octave below my soprano ukuleles, and I could use the same mandolin fingering.

Here goes...

E .024 Standard baritone E
A .032 Tuned down 1 step from baritone B (This stock .032 white nylon was a bit loose and sounded dull as A)
Replaced the .032 with EJ56 classical set (clear nylon) 'B' string .0327" - A is much better, now.
D .030w From D'Addario J68 set (also in EJ27n set)
G .045w Low E from D'Addario EJ27n Classical set

First impressions are it has good string balance with lots of grunt - just what the doctor prescribed:)

Letting it settle in for a week before I permanently cut the nut for .045w.

Thanks again for the motivation!

-Wiggy

<update>

I couldn't wait, so I filed the nut to properly seat an .045w for G. It all sounds great. String tension feels normal. No buzzes, so I'm happy where it's at.

<update #2> 22 Jul, 2021 Still liking this Octave Mandolin tuning.

<update #3> 6 Nov, 2021 I have haveit on a Caramel CB305 and it sounds great, especially plugged in. This tuning is just plain mesmerizing when switching back -and-forth with a soprano in mandolin tuning...
Now, I'm looking for a Ohana BK70r... TBC

>-W
 
Last edited:
It should "just" be a matter of choosing the right string gauges.

IIRC, Aquila dropped their 5ths tuning sets, and Southcoast (RIP) couldn't find a combination he was happy with, but eventually was selling reentrant 5ths set.

You might check various online string tension calculators. What I might do is enter a "Standard" set and see how that scales out, then see if I could find a combination in 5ths.

I observe that a guitar has larger range across six strings than a Mando does across four courses, making me think it's certainly feasible in SOME tuning drawing from the gauges of a Classical guitar set.
 
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