Question about playability vs cost

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Wineshop

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So I've been a guitarist for 40 years, with about 20 of that as primarily a fingerstyle player (hair metal wizard and Austin country picker before that! :rock:). I've gotten into Ukulele for about the last 3 years, but really heavy this last year. And to be honest, I'm getting pretty good on the thing. As I tackle songs that are more and more complex I spend more time up the neck. And on my three $100 - $300 ukuleles, that's not always that easy. I have dozens of guitars from $100 up to $8000, and playing up the neck on any is a piece of cake. On my ukes it can be a challenge to sound every note with sustain, and in tune. Now the problem is - there isn't a high end uke within 500 miles of me, so I can't go play one. I have no problem saving up $1000 - $1500 for a uke that plays better with a better neck, but ... I have to order it if I do. So my question: should I expect the neck to be more loving (yes, my word!) higher up the neck for those crazy chords that I have to play to support my melodies? Do I just have to order one with a good return policy in case I don't like it? And if that's the case, what in that price range would you suggest for a guy who's 80% fingerstyle, and strums only when I have to! I hope all this makes sense. FYI - all 3 of my ukes have really nice setups, so I don't think that's the issue.

Thanks so much!
Tim
 
IMHO the short scale length and small body of a Uke limit what’s possible / practical up the neck, however that can be challenged by better builds and bigger Ukes. I don’t play Tenor scale or buy ‘expensive’ instruments but if playing high up the neck was really important to me then I’d have to.

Only you know how responsive you need a Uke to be and what sound you’re looking for. With that in mind travelling to both try out and hear your purchase would be your best option - perhaps the trip could be worked in with other things. Cost wise I would suggest looking towards a street price of plus 500 dollars for a mass produced Uke.

Edit. I see that Bill1 has responded directly after me. His advice is good and well worth taking note of. It is Bill’s normal practice to delete his posts after a few days so I suggest that you make your own note of them now.

A lot of people are very pleased with the mail order service they get from Mim’s Ukes. Some folk even ring her up or email asking for her suggestions, sometimes she’ll demonstrate on YouTube too. Mim has more business than she can manage ... so pretty much no reason not to give you a straight answer.
 
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My first thought was setup, but you said that wasn't an issue. A couple other things come to mind. One, you don't mention what size uke you're playing on, but longer scale lengths tend to have noticeably better intonation and sustain. You might want to look at a tenor or super tenor. And two, guitarists tend to push down a lot harder on the uke strings than they need to because of their guitar background, and this messes up the intonation. Since you've been playing for a few years, you're likely already be aware of this, but just thought I'd throw that out there.

All that said, yes, you tend to get better quality in ukuleles as you pay more, though at a certain point returns rapidly diminish. I'm only familiar with one uke that really stands out for sustain: a Signature Romero. The only uke I've played that reminds me of a guitar. I don't know if all of Pepe Romero's ukes have lots of sustain, but unfortunately the Signature/Replica model is only 12 frets to the body, which makes playing up the neck more difficult than typical tenors.
 
If you can’t find what you’re looking for in Houston, give the Ukulele Site a call and explain your predicament to them. There are high-prices ukuleles that might not meet your needs and there are other ukes that might fit the bill. But if they know what you’re looking for playability-wise, they’ll be able to steer you in the right direction.
 
I've never considered the shape of a neck before buying a uke. I have all sorts of neck shapes and uke sizes, and I just pick them up and play them. Of the many ukes I've bought, I can recall buying only one or two in person.
 
Ultimately the ukulele's short scale length compared to a guitar works against playing up the neck. That said, Kamaka tenors seem to play well up the neck or if you like sopranos try a Koaloha. No scientific basis here, just an anecdotal opinion.
 
I'd encourage you to listen to a lot of sound samples, and hear the differences. Ukulele Site and Ukulele Friend are 2 sites that have great sound samples, but you'll find plenty on Vimeo and YouTube as well.

If you can, you might try for a custom ukulele. Talk with the builders about what you want, listen to the sound samples that they can provide you, and I have no doubt that you can find a ukulele with the sustain and intonation that you are looking for. I have one custom, (Kinnard), and it beats my other ukuleles hands down when it comes to sustain, intonation, and the sound I was hoping for.

That might not be the sound that you're looking for, (it is for me, but we all have our own preferences), but check out the various builders, (both custom and standard brands), and I think you should be able to find what you're looking for.
 
Hey Wineshop, I'm going to give slightly contradictory advice.

You don't need sound files or to play before you pay. After all, it is a ukulele and its tone isn't a variable in this equation.

What I did when I was in your situation was get a custom uke with 19frets and a cutaway. The advantage of the custom uke is that you can speak with the luthier and tell him: "I'm fingerpicking up the neck; make sure those frets are loving." And then the luthier accomplishes your wish.

Additionally, loosening my strings helped me. I never play in GCEA. The A string in particular wasn't very responsive to long slides and playing the pentatonic shape between frets 16 and 19 didn't yield much sustain. I am currently playing EAC#F#. For me it is perfect compromise. It gives me looser strings for sustain on the high frets without getting too muddy when strumming. I have gone as low as CFAD. The fingerpicking was good and earthy--kind of like John Fahey--but the chords were a bit too warm, to put it lightly.
 
You have lots of good advice here. The only thing that jumps out to me is are you playing tenors? It sounds like you should be, and one with a cutaway. In your price range of $1000-1500 there are many fine ukes. I would talk to the folks at The Ukulele Site, particularly Corey, or Kalei if he is there. They are both stellar players. Spend some time detailing exactly what you're looking for. They can dial in on the ukes that will suit you, and make recommendations. They have the high end stock to back up their recommendations, but if need be they can order one for you. Shipping is free, it will come set up perfectly, and they have an excellent return policy,
 
Hey! Worked late into the morning and just woke up and I'm thrilled over all the excellent advice. Thanks to everyone for taking the time to give me some directional nudges. I may very well look into a custom at some point (I have several times with acoustic guitars) but I have to be darn sure of what I want before I do. Houston has some great guitar shops, but the one's that have ukes tend to have those mostly in the $300-$400 range (not that those can't be really good). Same with Austin - from what I've seen. Their may be some I'm not aware of or haven't stumbled on online. Bill's advice about the ukulele group in Houston is great! I was not aware there was such a thing as ukulele groups but I'm diving into this one today. I'm hoping there are a few in my town or close by. I admit these tiny little pieces of wood are crazy addictive and as much as I love guitar, lately I find myself playing my ukes at least 2 to 1 over anything else I play. To answer another question - right now I have 2 concerts and a soprano. So I think it's time to look at a tenor. I will also contact The Ukulele Site - I've already browsed around and it looks great. I've also looked at Mim's Ukes - seems like a great site, as well. Thanks again, all. Great group ya got here.
 
A nylon string instrument isn't going to sustain the same as a steel stringed one further up the neck.

That being said, higher end ukes are generally made to be more resonant, hence the high notes sound better.

Perhaps consider one with a cutaway.

Otherwise, a steel stringed electric uke might be worth looking into. But then again, you're going to start sounding like an electric guitar rather than an uke.
 
The short answer to your question is: Yes. A uke in the $1000-$1500 range will be easier to play up the neck. Especially a tenor. You should also get better sustain and clarity.

If you are looking for a ukulele that gives you more of a "guitar-ish" sound, I second the recommendation for Kinnard tenors. I talked at length with Kevin, the sales rep for Kinnard, at a uke fest two years ago, and he said that John Kinnard builds his ukuleles with that sound in mind.

Another Luthier to check out would be Luis Feu de Mesquita of LFdM Guitars. His tenors also have a guitar like sound to them.

You might want to look at 18" & 19" scale tenors. The longer neck give more room for your fingers and in general gives a longer sustain and deeper voice.
David Ingalls of Ono Ukuleles makes an 18" "Wahoo" model that is really nice. And sound great.

Custom will cost considerably more than your range, but it may be worth it to you to have a custom made instrument. And you can occasionally find a used one.

Look at spruce or cedar top ukes. Koa produces a, well, more "ukulele" sound. Pepe Romero, Rebel, LoPrinzi, Kiwaya, aNueNue, Martin are very good production ukuleles that might give you the sound and playabilty you're looking for.

There are lots of uke players here that also play guitar. I'm sure they can advise about what they have found works for them.
 
Wineshop said:
Hey! Worked late into the morning and just woke up and I'm thrilled over all the excellent advice. Thanks to everyone for taking the time to give me some directional nudges. I may very well look into a custom at some point (I have several times with acoustic guitars) but I have to be darn sure of what I want before I do. Houston has some great guitar shops, but the one's that have ukes tend to have those mostly in the $300-$400 range (not that those can't be really good). Same with Austin - from what I've seen. Their may be some I'm not aware of or haven't stumbled on online. Bill's advice about the ukulele group in Houston is great! I was not aware there was such a thing as ukulele groups but I'm diving into this one today. I'm hoping there are a few in my town or close by. I admit these tiny little pieces of wood are crazy addictive and as much as I love guitar, lately I find myself playing my ukes at least 2 to 1 over anything else I play. To answer another question - right now I have 2 concerts and a soprano. So I think it's time to look at a tenor. I will also contact The Ukulele Site - I've already browsed around and it looks great. I've also looked at Mim's Ukes - seems like a great site, as well. Thanks again, all. Great group ya got here.
Click to expand...

As you’re not playing Tenor already it would be wise to consider how that scale might suit your hands and the physical side of your playing before investing in a really expensive instrument. I tried the Tenor scale and it didn’t work for me but as a Guitar player you might be perfectly happy.

You might not have heard of Ken Middleton but he’s a well respected player and was involved with Ohana at one time, check out YouTube and Living Waters Strings. Ken could play anything but he still has and uses a couple of Ohana TK35’s; the TK35’s are widely available, not massively expensive and Mim sells them.

https://mimsukes.com/search?type=product&q=Ohana+TK-35
 
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Wineshop said:
Hey! Worked late into the morning and just woke up and I'm thrilled over all the excellent advice... So I think it's time to look at a tenor. I will also contact The Ukulele Site - I've already browsed around and it looks great. I've also looked at Mim's Ukes - seems like a great site, as well. Thanks again, all. Great group ya got here.
Click to expand...

Here's a video of Corey at TUS playing an LFDM -
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...ACBF0FCEFAAD8848A397ACBF0FCEFAAD&&FORM=VDRVSR.
Here's a video of Kalei and Corey playing the jazzy Autumn Leaves together:
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...&mid=4F6C68EC23DA7FF646814F6C68EC23DA7FF64681 As players they'd be well qualified in helping you find what your looking for:
 
"Custom will cost considerably more than your range, but it may be worth it to you to have a custom made instrument. And you can occasionally find a used one."

Yes, definitely keep an eye on the marketplace here, as well as Flea Market, and anywhere else you might be comfortable buying a used ukulele.
There have been some great customs and higher end ukuleles that have sold used for a really good price. That might get you down to your price range.

Another thing that I don't think anyone has mentioned that is a lot cheaper to try - different strings. I'm not sure if you've experimented with various brands and types of strings, but it might be that finding the right-for-you strings will take care of what you're wanting to achieve. IMO, they can have an impact on sustain, intonation, and ease of playing up the neck.

A post above mentions Ken Middleton, who is the person behind Living Water strings. They are now my go-to strings, though I have one ukulele that didn't like them, so as with all things, one size doesn't fit all.

Uke Logic strings are another favorite on this forum. But there are many others that you can try, (Worth clears vs. Worth browns, fluorocarbon vs. nylon vs. wound strings, and so on.)

IMO, the right-for-you ukulele can make a world of difference, though, so if that's an option for you, enjoy the hunt and enjoy whatever you might end up buying.
 
"As you’re not playing Tenor already it would be wise to consider how that scale might suit your hands and the physical side of your playing before investing in a really expensive instrument."

Another good point. Tenors didn't work out for my hands, but concerts are perfect for me. And there are the in-between sizes, (16" inch concert vs. 15" concert, for example), which are out there. Kamaka has the Ohta San which is 16", (out of your stated price range new, but maybe a used one would fit your budget), Ono makes a 16" ukulele, and there are some others as well. So lots of options for sizes, even beyond the standard sizes.
 
To me, it seems like a lot of playability has to do with how precisely an instrument can hit certain points in the space of the instrument (neck, nut, frets, saddle). I.e. how "straight" it is. The more lined up everything is, the better everything feels and the easier it is to play - assuming everything else is quality.

Maybe wood as a material works fine for the precision needed in a guitar, but a small uke needs to be close to twice as precise to achieve the same margin of error. I don't need to tell anybody that wood doesn't get twice as stable when you build a uke.

Bottom line, ukes are, in general, going to play more squirrely than guitars.

When you pay more money for a uke, you're getting more attention to details, to the perfect alignment of these parts. For hands-off shopping, I would only feel comfortable with a Hawaiian-made K-brand or similar attention to detail. Bonus points if you get MIM or HMS to do an aftermarket setup.

All that said, the most "playable" uke I've ever touched is my Blackbird Farallon which is NOT made of wood. You can tell. It's straight as a rail. But it has some tradeoffs (sound).
 
Cadia said:
Here's a video of Corey at TUS playing an LFDM -
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...ACBF0FCEFAAD8848A397ACBF0FCEFAAD&&FORM=VDRVSR.
Here's a video of Kalei and Corey playing the jazzy Autumn Leaves together:
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...&mid=4F6C68EC23DA7FF646814F6C68EC23DA7FF64681 As players they'd be well qualified in helping you find what your looking for:
Click to expand...

I've never had the opportunity to play a LFDM, but I would guess that one would make me happy, (if the neck worked for me.)

Here is another recent sample from the Ukulele Site, this one of a Kinnard that I enjoy listening to, though this one has already been sold, so it's not to tempt anyone into buying this. Simply an example of what you might be looking for, if this sound appeals to you.

https://theukulelesite.com/kinnard-custom-tenor-cedar-palo-escrito-1661.html

Of course, there is the Moore Bettah that just sold for $22,000 (IIRC), so you can really dream big if you'd like. LOL.
 
Again - thanks for all the help. I'm going to go and play some tenors nearby just to gauge the feel (even if they are cheaper models). One of the things I love about the concerts and sopranos I own is the ability to form exotic chords that may utilize the width of 7 or 8 frets. That's fun! I want to make sure jumping up a size doesn't hamper that ability. I'll just have to play a few and see. If there's little difference I may then look at longer scales. Long term - the Kinnards look amazing, but I'd like to stay married. If my next bonus is good enough .. who knows. The Mike Periara ukes look like a legitimate option. And I'd love to try a Blackbird. Also how about Pono as an option? They make a cutaway spruce top for $800 or so which looks great. I did some searching here and they seem to get mostly positive feedback. FYI -I'd say playability is more important than tone or sustain, but my experience with guitars is usually when they play easy and fret easy, they tend to sustain a tad better by design. But I really want to be able to hop around as effortlessly as possible. And I realize it won't play like a steel string guitar - even my nylon classical acoustics don't - but I'd like to give it hell trying! And practice will help that - even the ukes I own get easier with practice. So I'll get there. Thanks again!

Tim
 
Wineshop said:
Again - thanks for all the help. I'm going to go and play some tenors nearby just to gauge the feel (even if they are cheaper models). One of the things I love about the concerts and sopranos I own is the ability to form exotic chords that may utilize the width of 7 or 8 frets. That's fun! I want to make sure jumping up a size doesn't hamper that ability. I'll just have to play a few and see. If there's little difference I may then look at longer scales. Long term - the Kinnards look amazing, but I'd like to stay married. If my next bonus is good enough .. who knows. The Mike Periara ukes look like a legitimate option. And I'd love to try a Blackbird. Also how about Pono as an option? They make a cutaway spruce top for $800 or so which looks great. I did some searching here and they seem to get mostly positive feedback. FYI -I'd say playability is more important than tone or sustain, but my experience with guitars is usually when they play easy and fret easy, they tend to sustain a tad better by design. But I really want to be able to hop around as effortlessly as possible. And I realize it won't play like a steel string guitar - even my nylon classical acoustics don't - but I'd like to give it hell trying! And practice will help that - even the ukes I own get easier with practice. So I'll get there. Thanks again!

Tim
Click to expand...

I would suggest an aNueNue or a Romero Creations as a better choice for what you're looking for over the Pono. Though I like Pono, I think tonewise and playability-wise the other two have it all over Pono and are more what you're looking for. They are really, really nice instruments, and they have a more guitarlike sound. I have all three brands, including 4 Ponos, so I have some familiarity with the differences. The aNueNue Moonbird in particular would be a wonderful choice for you, though on the top end of your budget. It has a cutaway by design, and the moon spruce and rosewood is a winning combination soundwise for rich low end and sparkling highs. It's a uke you'd never outgrow. I have an aNueNue AMM3 (mahogany) that I bought recently and it's now my favorite uke, even over my Hawaiians. It plays well over its $599 price. In fact, that would be a good choice too, except for the lack of a cutaway. Romero Creations, coming from a classical guitar builder, also tend to sound more guitarlike in tone.

https://theukulelesite.com/anuenue-moon-bird-tenor-ut200-7950.html

Good review of the Moonbird and koa vs spruce/rosewood, as well as aNueNue sizes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdarEuIaLpc&t=1808s

Editing to add - you can get concert versions if you prefer, but tenors will give you more projection and sustain.
 
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