Ukulele Bridge Placement

Doug W said:

Greetings,

I need a visual to get this straight. From a drafting background, I like measuring things from center to center but I have found references on the Internet about measuring from the front of the nut, and front of the saddle. Could someone take a look at my link at the bottom of the page under

How do I locate the saddle?...
http://webpages.charter.net/drw46/uke/uke-problems.htm

and tell me if A, B or C is correct or are they all wrong?

Thanks,
Doug

Click to expand...

Doug,
You'd probably rather hear from someone else by now, but since no one's chiming in, I'll give you my thoughts on it. Your diagram C makes the most sense to me, except instead of just thinking "edge" of saddle/nut, think of the point the strings come off them as the point you're looking for. With the nut, it is indeed the edge of it. Saddles, however, tend to simply have a rounded top, where the point the strings leave off is really the middle of the saddle. The exception would be where the saddle has been compensated, i.e., filed to have the point of string departure all the way at the back or the front of the saddle. Even then, it's usually just one or two strings that are compensated. My point being, measure from the front of the nut to the twelfth, to the middle of the saddle. On the one concert I've built, I then moved the bridge back 1/16". Sounds great to my untrained ear.

face of nut to center of saddle...

face of nut to 12th fret is half scale length
conversely, 12th to center of saddle (or whatever your break point is) is also half scale length.


*my tangent* I gotta comment about chuck's post on people getting caught up in the biggest and baddest yada yada. Its like how some formal musicians playing piano, brass and woodwinds are too "uptown" for guitarist etc. I suppose a better analogy would be comparing people's response to ukulele players as opposed to mainstream guitarists. Since I "only" make cigar box instruments alot of people think they're neat, but dont regard them the same as a "real" instrument. I got half a problem with that...granted, they arent the same as professional instruments, but they are real instruments. They look cool and play well, just like a professional one. I've gotten used to the lackluster response by alot of "fancy" people.

Like Chuck said, it aint about the biggest, best, and fanciest...its about music sucka's! That's why its so easy to tell the REAL music lovers because they think anything that makes music is super cool regardless of how fancy.
Shoot, I think jaw harps are super slick, but...the vibrations hurt my teeth

Matt,
Join in at any time. My instrument repair knowledge is limited so I welcome any advice. I gave up instrument repair when my son was three. He was watching me work on an old bowl back mandolin that was going to be my introduction into instrument repair. I left the room for something and he picked up a hammer and finished the job.

He's 31 now and I forgave him last month which gave me the courage to start again.

confedgroove,

thanks also for helping to clarify things for me. Think I can get started now.

Regards,
Doug

Er... I did chime in, but it seems to have gone unnoticed on the previous page.

Dave Higham said:

Er... I did chime in, but it seems to have gone unnoticed on the previous page.

Click to expand...

It's funny, but your response wasn't there when I posted mine, unless we posted at the same time (roughly).

Great diagram, btw. Here it is again, on this page:

Dave,

Sorry for missing your post. Nice drawing. I only read books with pictures and this one says it all.

Thanks,
Doug

This is a great thread! Here is a very helpful Fret position calculator... This can be used to determine the compensation for your saddle placement, based on your scale length (I don't pretend to understand how that compensation is calculated):
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...derfhEsUuU3fD7VjA&sig2=fsCQ4ka2CAJWDwZXdSbjJw

Matt Clara said:

It's funny, but your response wasn't there when I posted mine, unless we posted at the same time (roughly).

Great diagram, btw. Here it is again, on this page:

Click to expand...

Is this diagram showing 1/16" what most of the builders use as compensation for a soprano scale? The reason i ask is on one of my concerts (prototype) that i removed the plywood top and replaced with a solid spruce top and a new style bridge. i believe i ended up with more like 1/8" compensation using Aquila Nylgut strings.

I will admit i like a healthy string height to allow for clean play and volume at times, so perhaps the extra compensation
is justified in my case. It intonated really nice, btw.

My higher string height and greater string tension of concert over soprano makes sence to me that more compensation is needed. (even more, perhaps, on a tenor?)

I don't think measuring to the 12th fret than doubling is the best way to go. Every time you measure and mark you will by it's very nature make a small amount of error. Thus using this method your 12th fret error will be doubled as it relates to the other frets. Better to use set all frets and bridge using the stumac or other calculator.

Michael Smith said:

I don't think measuring to the 12th fret than doubling is the best way to go. Every time you measure and mark you will by it's very nature make a small amount of error. Thus using this method your 12th fret error will be doubled as it relates to the other frets. Better to use set all frets and bridge using the stumac or other calculator.

Click to expand...

I don't measure from nut front edge to center of 12th fret and double. I measure from nut front edge to the center of the 12th fret, then measure from the center of the 12th fret to the front edge of the saddle slot and add my setback compensation.

.....all done with a 12" thin Starrett steel rule. (careful near the top!)

But then i'm not a builder,....just a home set up my own instruments idiot savant.

My point was saddle placement is more accurate when measured from the nut and not from the 12th fret. As an example lets assume we are adding the same amount of compensation and measuring to the same place on the saddle and from the same place on the nut.

Scale = 300mm
Fret 12 @ 150mm

Fret 6 was to be placed 87.868 mm but as the world is not perfect was placed 1/4mm flat
Fret 12 for the same reason was placed 1/4mm sharp @ 150.25mm

By now measuring off the 12th fret you take the 150.25mm and double to 300.5mm, compensate and place the saddle there.
You now have and error of .75mm @ fret 4. This error could get worse or better when you actually place the saddle.

Making all measurements from the nut in this example you would reduce the error all other things being equal.

Michael Smith said:

My point was saddle placement is more accurate when measured from the nut and not from the 12th fret. As an example lets assume we are adding the same amount of compensation and measuring to the same place on the saddle and from the same place on the nut.

Scale = 300mm
Fret 12 @ 150mm

Fret 6 was to be placed 87.868 mm but as the world is not perfect was placed 1/4mm flat
Fret 12 for the same reason was placed 1/4mm sharp @ 150.25mm

By now measuring off the 12th fret you take the 150.25mm and double to 300.5mm, compensate and place the saddle there.
You now have and error of .75mm @ fret 4. This error could get worse or better when you actually place the saddle.

Making all measurements from the nut in this example you would reduce the error all other things being equal.

Click to expand...

You have just burst my bubble, as i had assumed fret placement was correct as far as humanly possible. Large Factories such as Martin and Taylor i'm sure have this down pat. Smaller shops "might" not have a template or fixed setup to cut fret slots and so error on any one batch might creap in and go unnoticed.

......but i see your point, placing the bridge as measured from the nut sort of averages any small (hopefully) errors of any individual fret placement. Were the "12th fret" be seriously misplaced, fretting along the entire scale would sound horrible if the bridge (saddle slot specificially) were placed with "it" as the reference point to measure from.