what do you think of this action--too high, just right, what?

i've just gotten a serious uke and it has the highest action i've had on any of my ukes thus far.

my experience with high quality ukes is very limited, so i'd appreciate your feedback.

when i press down on the 3rd fret, three of the strings have that hair's breadth distance from the second fret wire. the "a" string does seem to touch the second fret wire slightly.

when i measure the distance at the 12th fret with my best ruler, i get about 4-4.1 mm to the bottom of the string. i've only done this with the "g" and "a" string. i couldn't get the ruler in well enough to measure the "c" and "e" string, but it seems to be the same.

now this distance is with all the strings in their rest position--not pressed down at all on any fret.

so...

with my very limited experience in this area, i ask you:

is this too high or should i just get over it?

it seems to me that the nut may be fine, but that the saddle is a smidge too high.

if that's the case, how do i remedy the problem (i haven't the tools or expertise to do this myself)? send it to a local guitar shop or back to the makers?

i would appreciate any feedback on the matter.

mahalo!

What's the action at the first fret?

Go to your local guitar shop. Ask for a set-up and specify the action you want. If they are any good, they'll ask to see you play the instrument so they can assess how low to go. No need to send it back to the maker. Manufacturers often ship instruments with action set high as it is easier for the buyer to lower the action than raise it.

when i measure the first fret, i'm doing it in the middle of the fret space. not sure if that's where i'm supposed to or not.

but i get 1.3 mm on the "g" and "a" strings. it's a tenor fretboard if that helps.

mzuch, that's sounds like a good idea i guess. it's just that i'd be really wary of trusting someone around here for that kind of help. please forgive me if these are swear words around here, but would the folks at sam ash or guitar center be able to do this kind of work with a high level of competency? and any guesstimates on the $ of this? are we talking $15 or more like $75? i have no reference for this kind of thing.

i just compared the 12th fret distance with my other two ukes--a mitchell spruce top and a mele 6 string kalia--and they are more like 2.8-3.1 to the bottom of the g and a strings. their action feels fine to me, but they are both concert models. not sure if that makes a huge diff with this uke being a tenor.

oh yeah, as with the 1st fret measurement, i'm doing this in the middle of the fret space to the bottom of the string.

thanks again to all for your advice!

3nails4holes said:

i've just gotten a serious uke and it has the highest action i've had on any of my ukes thus far.

my experience with high quality ukes is very limited, so i'd appreciate your feedback.

Click to expand...

Just for a point of reference, who made your instrument?

3nails4holes said:

. . .any guesstimates on the $ of this? are we talking $15 or more like $75? i have no reference for this kind of thing.

. . .oh yeah, as with the 1st fret measurement, i'm doing this in the middle of the fret space to the bottom of the string.

Click to expand...

Cost? Depends on how much work, and how long it takes, plus parts. Average will be about $75 an hour. For a full setup, figure about an hour charge (although it'll probably take about 15 minutes).

Action is measured from the top of the fret to the bottom of the string. There is no other way to measure "at the 12th fret" unless the fretwire is actually removed.

Robby I once paid $40 for a set-up on a guitar to have the action lowered and frets dressed.

Kekani said:

Just for a point of reference, who made your instrument?

Click to expand...

It is a KoAloha tenor sceptre.

I set the action for most of my ukes between 2.0 - 2.2mm at the 12th fret. That is from the top of the 12th fret to the bottom of the string. If you are measuring off of the fret board then you have to take into account the hight of the fret. On most ukes that is going to be a measurement in round figures of 1.0mm, so your total distance in that case would be 3.0 - 3.2mm.

However you have to be careful about how you are reading the ruler. A much better tool for this is a string action gauge like the ones you can get at Stew Mac.

haolejohn said:

It is a KoAloha tenor sceptre.

Click to expand...

I highly doubt it comes out of the factory at 4mm. What is that, .157"? I'm thinking closer to .125" out of the box, then you take it down from there.

And like Allen stated, use the right tools. The string action gauge will expose as much as a .005" variance (or more) compared to a regular ruler. I set mine at about .100", with high tension strings. Depending on the player (and strings), I'll go down to about .095", but rarely below that - that's when most of my customers start banging the fretboard or the body itself.

Since no one has mentioned it, i would check to see approximately how much neck relief you have with your strings of choice. If your neck (at pitch) is pretty flat with little to no relief showing, i have found that i cannot get as low an action that i might hope for without also getting buzzes . (especially if you want to emphasize certain notes in solo pieces with a hard attack on individual strings)

It might not be as noticable if you mostly strum, but you'll still get the best tone and volumn from keeping just a
little more action height than going as low as the intrument can absolutely handle without buzzing.

To check your neck relief, press the 1st fret and 12th fret down at the same time. While holding them down, you should see a little space around the middle frets. A small gap between the top of the fret and the bottom of the string at the 5th or 6th fret is what i like to find.

I don't actually measure it,.....doing maybe 100 set ups over the years, i find that if i can press down at the 6th fret
and be able to visably see movement of the string to the fret, it's usally enough.

i'm glad you described what "neck relief" was. i checked.

it seems to be as you describe it--just a tiny space between the bottom of the string and the fret wires when i press down on the 1st and 12th frets simultaneously.

kekani, i don't know what to tell you about how it left the factory. from some ppl i've talked with they seem to think that maybe it came high to allow for ppl to lower it to their preferred amount later. i just don't know on this matter. i just know that it feels high to me.

so if i wanted to lower it, what do you think i should do uu luthiers?

take it to sam ash, guitar center, find a local trusthworthy luthier, send it to koaloha or what? i don't feel great about any of those options.

again, mahalo for your feedback!

If you are sure you want the action lower, I'd suggest trying to do it yourself. You could learn something about your instrument and if you screw it up it's easy to replace the saddle or take it to a shop later if you give up.

Think the next thing I'd do is loosen the strings and make certain the saddle is seated properly in the slot at the bridge. Could be someone drilled it out the bridge for a pickup and left a burr or something in the saddle slot.
Can't imagine Sam Ash or GC being much help. If you could find a local or nearby independent guitar shop, they probably have a guy that does set-ups that should be able to help. Just saying don't get hung up on the term 'Luthier'.
And lastly, as hoosierhiver recommends above, give it a try yourself. Assuming everything is fine at the nut and the neck is OK, it could be as simple as pulling out the saddle and sanding it down on a flat surface with some sandpaper. The only trick is keeping the saddle perpendicular to the sanding surface and keeping the part level or equal pressure so you don't sand an angle.

i have thought about sanding the saddle myself. but i am concerned about screwing it all up.

a couple of thoughts:

- should i sand the top or bottom of the saddle?

- if the nut height seems fine, wouldn't this screw up that angle down the neck if i sand the saddle?

Pull the saddle out of the slot and sand the bottom of the saddle.
It will change the angle of the strings to the fretboard. This is desirable cause you want to lower the action.
It will not greatly effect the dimension at the nut or third fret providing you don't sand off too much. Again, the assumption is that the neck/fretboard is good and the height at the nut or third fret is good.
There's a new post that talks to set-up. It's all good and recommended reading. There's probably a YouTube video that shows how to sand down the saddle. You might try a search there. Lots of folks do this and don't screw anything up.

Here's a video that demonstrates adjusting the saddle using a file...... jump ahead to the halfway point.... you won't need the hammer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SJ32cGQzg8
Pretty easy stuff. And as someone else said, if you do screw it up, dropping in a new saddle is easy.
Didn't catch how the guy in the video arrived at the amount of saddle removal. I would recommend going a little at a time till it feels right to you.

Just remember that amateur setup screw-ups = job security for luthiers. I'm not saying not to try, but if you get in over your head then you'll find out why god invented luthiers.

Rick T makes a very good point, obviously!

That said, IMHO it is good for an instrument owner to develop the ability to do some routine maintenance. Just as I wouldn't take my car to my mechanic to change the angle of the screenwash nozzles...

The good thing about learning how to maintain bridge saddles and nuts is that they are separate, replaceable parts. I would recommend getting replacements from a luthier supplier or from eBay and working on those. That way, if you make a serious error you can just replace the original parts and you're no worse off.

On the other hand, I would NOT recommend DIY work on parts that are not easily and cheaply replaceable, or that are part of the fixed structure of the instrument. I would also be wary of messing with parts that seem to be securely glued in place.

Keep the original parts (saddles, nuts etc) safe and unaltered and experiment on spares. Get advice from people who are familiar with the tasks you want to tackle and you should be fine.

YMMV. That's just my opinion and worth exactly what you paid for it. If a qualified/experienced luthier tells you different then listen to them, not me.

Never work on your instrument unless you are confident that you're not taking on more than you can handle. Go slowly.

Oh, and it's usually best to sand the bottom of the saddle as the top is shaped to ensure the string leaves it cleanly. Take care not to let the saddle lean while sanding, and do it in small increments - it's easy to sand too far. Check the bottom of the saddle with a straight edge. It needs to be totally flat.

3nails4holes said:

[...] if the nut height seems fine, wouldn't this screw up that angle down the neck if i sand the saddle?

Click to expand...

If the nut height is fine then sanding the saddle shouldn't screw with anything to do with the nut. I was taught to set nut height in relation to the height of the first fret. That setting is independent of saddle height.

I think Frank Ford's explanation is nice and clear: http://www.frets.com/fretspages/musician/gensetup/nutaction/nutaction.html

thanks for the input!

can anyone tell me then what the advantage/disadvantage is of using a compensated saddle? should i get one of those?

what grit sand paper should i use?