set up & tuning question

hello,

I bought a Cordoba 20TM tenor uke and I've noticed that even after tuning it, the strings seem to be out of tune with each other. I don't think the strings are slipping out of tune per se, they seem to hold pitch ok. the octaves from the G string and the A string are out. would a set up help in regard to the strings being in tune with each other? do I need to let the strings break in a bit more? or is it the nature of a beginner instrument? this is my first uke and I'm not sure if I'm expecting more than the instrument is capable of. I've set up electric instruments to my satisfaction, but this little guy is out of my comfort zone. can anybody help a brother out?

thanks,
ramone

I have a 20TM-CE and intonation is nearly spot on. I would at least check out intonation, string height, level frets, etc. May well need a set up. Nut and saddle are plastic, so replacing them may be a good place to start anyway....I still need to do that with mine, at least the saddle. My Aquila strings were too bright for me, so I installed some low g's and love it.

the frets seem level and action seems to be ok, as far as I can tell. I play bass guitar mostly, so in comparison, the uke is a dream to play.
I'll call one of the shops and see if they can replace the nut & saddle. is bone the preferred material?

I bought a Cordoba concert when I first heard about them. It arrived in great condition and beautiful to behold. But the intonation was as you describe: terrible. I admit that intonation is my greatest bugaboo. After playing hundreds of ukuleles from dozens of builders, in every price range, I have learned that if intonation is important to you, you have very few choices. Aside from custom luthier made instruments, almost all have rather serious intonation flaws (the Cordoba was particularly problematic). Although I never bought one, The Kiwayas seem to have acceptable intonation in a reasonable price range. Kalohas and Kamakas (in that order) are the best store-bought ukes for intonation that I have found, but pricey. The Risa Uke Solid is AMAZING. No matter how you set up a cheap ukulele, the intonation will leave a discriminating ear disappointed. Good luck. I returned my Cordoba after one day as I have all my Kalas and Lanikais.

I received my new Flea a few days ago. And I must say, if you want an instrument without any intonation problems whatsoever then get an instrument with a 'zero fret'. That is, there's a real fret at the top of the fingerboard, where the nut is normally placed. The nut is instead moved back a little, the slits in the nut are only for defining the horizontal placement of the string, not the vertical (the slits go deep. The zero fret is what defines the vertical position, which is perfect by definition when done this way.)

The only way a zero-fret instrument could get intonation problems is to have the bridge incorrectly placed, which is something that doesn't take much workmanship to get right (even the cheapest factory-made ukuleles and guitars will normally have the bridge in the right spot), or if the bridge saddle is way too high so that a high action interferes with intonation. (Well, the neck _could_ be warped.. that would create intonation problems as well. This is a more of a problem for guitars though because of their long necks and the string tension. There will be more problems with cheap guitars.)

I have a zero-fret guitar as well (a quite expensive one, I also had a very cheap one in my hands once). And its intonation is also superb.

And easier to play too, of course - the action at the first fret is obviously perfect as well, it cannot possible be better by definition.

There's no rational reason why not all ukuleles are made with a zero-fret, in my opinion. My Pono, which has been set up properly, also has what sounds like near-perfect intonation, but the harmonics of each string interferences ever so slightly so the combined tones of chords are not as crystal clear as with the Flea.

There's that other variant with 'poles' instead of a nut, that's the only one which could compete with a zero fret as far as intonation is concerned. But a zero-fret combined with a slotted nut (for horizontal string control) is as good as it can possibly get.

-Tor

Do all the strings get more and more sharp as you fret up the neck? Or do they get sharp bad on the first few frets but get better as you go up th eneck? Or do they get flatt as you go up the neck?

If they get sharper and sharper as you go up the neck the sadle is too close to the nut and/or the strings are way too high at the 12th fret or both. These are the most common problems in my experience.

I brought it to a shop and the guy told me the saddle wasn't positioned correctly. he worked on it and it seems to be better, so I'm just going to learn to live with it. it's not a high end instrument and I think maybe I was expecting too much from an instrument of it's caliber. mostly I play in the first 5-7 frets and it does seem to play better and the strings seem to be in better tune with each other.
I bought this particular uke to see if I could learn to play one, it was an experiment of sorts. I'm really enjoying it and am making good progress. I'll be a bit more discerning with my next purchase. the biggest obstacle is finding better quality instruments to actually try before buying. most of the shops I've been to cater to the lower end/beginner ukes. thanks for the feedback, I do appreciate it!

ramone

I just got a solid acacia Kala tenor uke the intonation on it is very good. I cant see getting a better uke for the price about 200 dollars. Im very happy with it.

re stringing

I re strung my Makala concert awhile ago. I tuned it and made sure I had about 3 wraps around each peg. When I cut the excess all hell broke loose wtf? Why would they just slide off like that? They were tuned and had good tension.

same problem here with seeing different ukes. Im in California i guess thats what you get for not being in Hawaii. For us the internet is the only way

Tor said:

.............with a 'zero fret'. .............
................-Tor

Click to expand...

If the nut slots are properly set up for depth, there is no advantage for the zero fret. The string height would be the same.

In fact a case can be made that a nut can be set up better than a zero fret.
The wider vibration arc of the thicker, lower pitched, strings requires a very slightly higher string clearance to get the best possible, lowest, setup for each individual string. A zero fret can not be adjusted for each string. So it has to be set up for the wider vibration arc and is less than best for the other strings.

IF the intonation problems are only related to string height at the nut, Then why does the problem usually get worse as we get futher fron the nut/zero fret.

Just like the nut, a zero fret really only affects 4 notes, on a 4 string uke.
All other notes are fretted and then that fret becomes the end point of the
vibration. Only if the string height, nut or zero fret, is excessively high, will
it become part of the intonation issues.

This is spliting the hair very very fine, but isn't that really the difference between buttery smooth awesome playability, and average playability?

Just my humble opinion... Hopefully worth $.02

Daysailer said:

If the nut slots are properly set up for depth, there is no advantage for the zero fret. The string height would be the same.

Click to expand...

Yes. I said as much (in that post, or possibly the one in the other thread). The point is that to set the nut up correctly demands careful work, which will cost you. Which is why an instrument straight from the factory is never optimal in this respect, and that's where my argument for the zero fret comes in: Get it right from the start. A zero fret construction is easy to get right, compared to getting a nut correctly slotted (and again, the latter doesn't happen, straight from the factory).

In fact a case can be made that a nut can be set up better than a zero fret.
The wider vibration arc of the thicker, lower pitched, strings requires a very slightly higher string clearance to get the best possible, lowest, setup for each individual string. A zero fret can not be adjusted for each string. So it has to be set up for the wider vibration arc and is less than best for the other strings.

Click to expand...

I would argue against that theory, simply because if that were true then it would all fall over as soon as you play anything but fully open strings: Press the first bar, and any individual height adjustment of each string won't matter.

IF the intonation problems are only related to string height at the nut, Then why does the problem usually get worse as we get futher fron the nut/zero fret.

Click to expand...

hm.. because it doesn't? If it did, then it would imply an incorrectly set bridge. That's pretty uncommon really, you see it now and then, but by far most intonation problems I see are, when you get down to it, near the nut. You may not notice that that's where the problem is, it depends on how you tune.

Just like the nut, a zero fret really only affects 4 notes, on a 4 string uke.
All other notes are fretted and then that fret becomes the end point of the
vibration. Only if the string height, nut or zero fret, is excessively high, will
it become part of the intonation issues.

Click to expand...

Yes, exactly. But it's important to get the nut, or the zero fret, correctly set up. Because otherwise you'll be unable to play clean chords with open strings.

My argument boils down to the following: It's much easier, and much less expensive, to use a zero fret than to adjust a nut to get good intonation at the nut end. Every zero fret instrument I have seen (several guitars, and my Flea ukulele) are perfect in this respect, which is hard to come by for traditional nut instruments.

-Tor