veneer over solid wood

Ben, I'm not commenting on the build or sound quality of any uke mentioned here. I am only commenting on the lack of clarity in the words used to describe the woods.

OK . Let me describe what " LAMINATE " is , and what it is for .

" LAMINATE " is an inexpensive manufacturing process ( in most cases ) using near indentical thicknesses pieces of wood to use low qaulity wood and glue them together for the sake of structure . PERIOD ! Laminates are NOT known for sound qulity . But look at it thia way . Ever been ina super tall peaked building like a church and look up at massive wooden beams ? I imagine so . I BET YOU MY UKE THEY ARE LAMINATE . For structural strength well above and beyong solid wood . Even when quality wood . And then they will often veneer the beam for asthetic value . Even then , the veneer is not for structural purposes . NEVER !


Veneer is NOT for structural soundness . Veneer is simply for appearance .

A photo of my " AMERICAN MADE , LUTHIER HANDCRAFTED , SOLID TONEWOOD Uke ! Wanna hear a soundbyte ? And get back with me in 50 years when a bookended solid is dead meat .

Drew Bear said:

Joining two book matched pieces of wood along a seam is not the same as laminating three sheets of thin wood. Maybe the Luthiers or folks with knowledge of carpentry can describe it better, but let's not try to equate the two processes.

Edited to add that a single ply of wood sandwiched between two veneers is, by definition, a laminate. There's no composite lumber involved, so you can say it's high quality laminate.

Click to expand...

Just curious . So glueing two pieces of wood side by side is simply glueing ? While gluein two pieces of wood on top of each other is laminating ? Hrrrmmmm ! Intersting !

And I add binding to my solid wood , I then sammich three pieces of differnt thicknesses of wood to one linear structure . Right ? Then again .....ANY uke built of no matter what that has binding must be a lamite as well .

See where we are going with reality of definition ?


LAMINATION IS STRUCTURAL . . . . . . VENEER IS ESTHETIC ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! . Although it is likely to assist in strength to some small degree . lol

Oh yeah . And if the sides are actually just simply inert , I'd like to see two identical Ukes made of any master grade tonewood . But one with aluminum sides and the other made of " INERT " solid wood . >

Can we all say , " TWANGITY TWANGITY TWANG TWANG TWANG ? lol

Drew Bear said:

Ben, I'm not commenting on the build or sound quality of any uke mentioned here. I am only commenting on the lack of clarity in the words used to describe the woods.

Click to expand...

Very fair. I think it's a bit of a bummer that we don't require clarification, although in this case I think that Sailor is very clear in the construction of their ukes. More so than many brands!

I can't say which is better, my cheap laminate ukulele looks just as good, or better than my more expensive solid wood ukulele. The solid, now that I'm used to the thicker neck, is more fun to play. The lam is louder. And has a more tinny tone. The solid is more mellow, kind of subdued compared to the lam, but I don't care. I have no issues with the body, the neck is what gives me heck, on the lam. I wonder if it's warped. Or maybe I'm just warped...

bynapkinart said:

very fair. I think it's a bit of a bummer that we don't require clarification, although in this case i think that sailor is very clear in the construction of their ukes. More so than many brands!

Click to expand...

AMEN BROTHER .......... PREACH IT !

But please afford and or allow me this opportunity to say why I chose a Sailor Brand .

I don't have alot of money to purchase alot of Ukes . I need bang for my buck . Therefore I only own three Ukes .

I was looking for a Uke to use as my " snake iron " . A uke I knew would hold up to going everywhere with me and take the abuse with hardiness and reliability and structural soundness coupled with sound . I wanted my " snake iron to be AMERICAN MADE . I wanted it to look good and to be something I was proud to own rather than to make excuses for .

I looked and looked and played and played Ukes . I kept going back to the Sailor time and time and then just did the right thing for my needs . This one is the smaller bodied concert and NOT a super saprano . The feel of the neck is like NO other for comfort and speed . I'll hope to soon have another Sailor Brand . Alhough I desire other brands equally in many ways , I know my SB will take the constant use and travel abuse that I'd always be nervous about with most others . It makes me feel like I could drive nails with it and sound good to . lol lol .

With the Freemont medium strings on it it is a cut through it all loud . But I was not expecting warmth in a small bodied concert anyway .

BUY ONE ! YOU'LL LOVE IT !

Bookmatching a back plate (edge to edge) and laminating a plate (face to face) are not at all the same thing. Laminating refers to layers.

From the Merriam Webster online dictionary:

Verb
1: to roll or compress into a thin plate
2: to separate into laminae
3a : to make (as a windshield) by uniting superposed layers of one or more materials
b : to unite (layers of material) by an adhesive or other means

Noun
a product made by pressing together thin layers of material [noncount] ▪ The kitchen counters are made of plastic laminate. [count] ▪ plastic laminates.

Click to expand...

The line between veneering and laminating is less cut and dried. By definition (see above), a piece of wood with another layer of veneer is a laminate.

Most definitions of veneer do say that its purpose tends to be decorative.

Most of the "laminate" instruments I have experience of seem to have been laminated with veneer for aesthetic/cosmetic reasons.

In my opinion, an instrument using veneer may correctly be termed a laminate instrument.

This subject is one that crops up again and again; and every time it gets temperatures raised. With that in mind, please do a little research before making loud proclamations of "fact", and, even when you're right, try not to keep SHOUTING to make your point.

FACT FACT FACT FACT FACT FACT .................

STRUCTURAL SOUNDNESS IS THE SOLE PURPOSE OF LAMINATION . Veneer is for esthetic value . Ever seen a windshiled with an esthetic veneer ? NOT ! For sure it would be tough to see through . lol


FACT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LOL LOL

Anyone wanna take the time to post Merriam Websters definition of " LAMINATE " as well as " VEENER " not only posting just the 'verb' of one word . But both verb and noun ?

Veneer is esthetic period . Ever seen a laminated rock wall ? NOPE ! It's called veneer . Veneer is use in a wood application to bring beauty to an ' inferior 'wood . And inferior doesn't particularly mean 'inferior' by structure but implies by appearance .

I mean since we took to the dictionary and all . lol

As for layering , who's to say one can put to pieces of wood together left to right , and or top to bottom and it is , or is not laminate .

Chicken or the egg ? I say this chicken !

But one better than the other ? Not always .

Stringed instruments in eons back were ALL solid wood . Technology caught up and thus laminates and veneer enter our lives . We'd all like to think the way it was done in cave man days was alledge better so we lean to that attempting to pose as purest . We do that in a love of ways . But if purism it best , I say go buy an old rattle trap vehicle with NO computer to control it's finctions and see about affording the gas .

There is great romance in calling something old school or old school style , " better " . But farce at best .

SOLID , SOLID PLASTIC , SOLID VENEER , SOLID NOTHING , SOLD SOEMTHING .

The only thing that makes ANY of that better is the simple fact if the individuals needs were met . FACT ! lol
Do I want esthetics over one thins and or structural integrity over another ? Ones choise to appease the need is what is " GOOD , BETTER , AND OR BEST " . But again ..... LAMINATION IS STRUCTURAL ! Veneer is NOT !
Causing the two of them tewo different things . Why pray tell have two definitions for the same thing if they are the same thing . They are different on ALL facets . But then again , If I call a banana an orange , it only makes it that to me my personal definition . To insist the world suddenly call it what I want it to be just isn't feasable .

And let's not forget those laminated faceplates so many luthiers use on high end so affirmed " solid wood " instruments then . If it has one single laminated component , it would then classify as a " laminate instrument " . Would it not ?

All components are proven to be affective towards sound quality .

So if one asked in regard to MOST ukes , if it were solid or laminate , lot's of folks would truly be found tell the FACTS that their uke is part laminate and part solid and part veneer . Right ?

I'm done with this . Love you all . Hope education was recieved on all parts not excluding mine .

UKEON TERRITORY said:

[...]STRUCTURAL SOUNDNESS IS THE SOLE PURPOSE OF LAMINATION[...]

Click to expand...

With respect, you are incorrect. The reason I "took to the dictionary and all" is because people often try to win this argument by spreading misinformation.

The verb "laminate" has a definition. That definition does not limit its relevance solely to structural function.

Appears as if we might agree we disagree . Never the less , when ones definitions makes declaration as " GOOD , BETTER OR BEST " , we all enter into another entirely different twilight zone . Although veneer is NOT inferior and or superior and neither is laminate . But I still say plywood is a laminate not veneer . Veneer is what is refered to as " OVERLAYMENT " for beautification accomplishment while laminate is by all means STRUCTURAL !


Wonderful day to all !

p.s. Really wasn't intending to pose " shouting " , more just emphasis . Hope no offence was taken to my ' emphasis ' .

No offense taken, I'm sure. It's just that caps are a bit harder to read!

buddhuu said:

No offense taken, I'm sure. It's just that caps are a bit harder to read!

Click to expand...

Hey buddhuu . I got a great idea . Let's talk about politics and religion for a while . That'd take away from the topic for a bit ................ lol lol ............... NOT ! ! !



hahahahahahaha , oh me !

LOL. Maybe another day.

I have to agree with buddhuu- words have definitions in the dictionary, and typing that something is fact in all caps does not make it so, just as its verbal twin, shouting, does not make something so. There is a lot of nonsense in this thread. If you like the way a uke sounds, and can afford it - buy it and play it. My opinion is of course suspect, since the uke I play the most is my laminate side and backed, solid spruce top $90 floor model Lanikai tenor (horrors!), and never feel ashamed. I also enjoy playing my friends' Sailor brands, Ks and other assorted ukes, as well as my solid mahogany soprano. I firmly believe that the thing that makes most ukes sound better is practice.

SweetWaterBlue said:

I have to agree with buddhuu- words have definitions in the dictionary, and typing that something is fact in all caps does not make it so, just as its verbal twin, shouting, does not make something so. There is a lot of nonsense in this thread. If you like the way a uke sounds, and can afford it - buy it and play it.

Click to expand...

I like this plan. Currently waking up with a cup of coffee and strumming on my Fender and KoAloha!

bynapkinart said:

I like this plan. Currently waking up with a cup of coffee and strumming on my Fender and KoAloha!

Click to expand...

I at first was wondering about your fender. Iplayed many of them while in Hawaii 2 or three years ago (when they first came out) and not one was I even remotely close to buying, even if it had of been free (well maybe then I would have). But then I read where you bought one of the newer ones. Maybe they are finally figuring it out???

Aggressive point making, casting dispersions on all opposing points of view, raising one's voice (CAPS) etc is called "Argumentation by Intimidation."

Didn't find the definition of " argumentation by intimidation " in the dictionary .But then again , intelligent beings done use Wiki for their sources of knowldege and good common sense .

But hey , take that as a jest and poke from a fun loving fellow Uker as a brother helping you work on an old solid wooden floored pickup . Not as someone looking to deny you the right to be wrong . lol

So, even though this thread has spun off in a wild direction regarding emphatic (and sometimes approaching bellicose) definitions, defense, and assaults on laminate vs solid, I'd like to go back to one of my little puzzles: why people would put a veneer on an otherwise solid top, back, or sides.

My guess is to make it look all purty. Or to make one wood look like another. "Hmmm, I've got this uke made from solid Blibbery wood, but I think it would sell better if I slapped a sticker over it to make it look like Dwingdaddy wood! What a great marketing ploy!"

That just makes no goldarn sense to me at all. What it tells me is that the manufacturer (or the buyer) is embarrassed to have a uke that looks like Blibbery wood, so they gotta hide it in a fake hide of Dwingdaddy, or the manufacturer is hoping the buyer won't actually read that the uke is Blibbery, and hope the sucker just assumes it's Dwingdaddy.

Either way, it just seems way too silly for me. If you got a Blibbery wood uke, let it be one.

Besides that, I still don't get ukes made where the top is solid mahog or cedar or spruce and the back-sides are solid koa. Unless the back-sides are lam koa but the manufacturer is lying about their build.

Okay, back to talking about what constitutes a real lam, and why they are so superior to solids that one day we'll genetically engineer laminate cows for better food.

... and a time and place for every material under heaven. even plastic [going to try my macc Islander in the shower sometime] The thing I have a problem with is trying to pass something off as what it's not. If it says solid wood it should be solid wood. There was a seller on ebay recently trying to pass off a Kala laminate koa as solid wood. He even said solid in his title. when I pointed this out to him he called me a deuce bag. I did not find this the least bit insulting as I have many bags, not just 2. but the fact that he never corrected his ad leads me to think he was purposely being misleading. btw. his uke didn't sell.