Thinner Soundboard = Less "Opening Up" Effect?

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Choweet

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I noticed that the solid tops on my Kala ukes (mahog and spruce) are quite noticeabley thinner than other solid wood ukes I have. I researched this and led me to a demo video of Mike Upton himself saying they intentionally sanded down the tops to be thinner than usual for more projection. While I don't particularly mind because they both sound great, does this mean that since the wood is thinner, they won't open up as much?

Thanks!
 
Lot's of factors to take into consideration besides how thin it is. How stiff it is and bracing are also very big factors.

But in the broadest of terms you might say that. When a top has more meat to it, there is more potential room for it to improve with age. Whereas one make much thinner can be load, bright and project, but not have anywhere to go with age. In fact the tone may actually deteriorate as it ages. Gone past it's prime so to speak.

Each method of building has it's pros and cons. One the one hand, we as builders need people to pick our instruments off the wall and like what they sound like, or they will get put back. You get that sort of effect by building very light and responsive. On the other hand, if they are just a bit more heavily built they may not have that initial appeal as a new instrument that sees them off to a new home, but in a years time may have really come into it's own, surpassing the other instrument in many ways, with years more potential.

Neither method is better or worse than the other. Really depends on the builders philosophy and of course skill.
 
Allen: That was very helpful. Without having given it much thought, I had expected an instrument which sounded better initially (brighter, more responsive) to improve with age. Perhaps 'mellow' by increasing mid and low tones.

I have little experience watching ukes improve their sound over time. My one year old baritone is definitely changing in tone but the change is hard to characterize. The luthier had a 10 year older uke made out of the same woods and it had everything going for it...open, mellow, responsive, etc. Just as important for me was the fact that the older instrument was still solid with no cracks. I guess the luthier hit the right balance between the initial out of the box sound and the durability of an instrument.
 
I want to add that the Kala tops are actually a similar thickness (though on the thinner side) to what many luthiers are using. I do apogolize to mention this if it is obvious, but the area around the sound hole on these instruments has been tapered down to almost nothing, giving the appearance of rediculously thin tops. Many builders do taper around the soundhole, but Kala does this notably. My solid mahog kala improved and "opened up" noticably. I played it hard for several hours nearly every day for about two and a half years. I bought my ma the same uke at the same time and hers has sat in the corner most of the time and when it is played it is not for very long. To compare these two ukes is surprising.

I tend to think the opening up effect has less to do with the volume of wood and more to do with the internal tensions of the wood and the tenions between peices of wood within the instrument. This is the neverending debate. One could say that thicker wood could have more internal tension and therefor open up more, but I would tend to argue that it would simply take longer to open up. However I won't argue it, both because I have no way of substantiating my claims and because nobody ought to enjoy circular debate.
 
oudin said:
but the area around the sound hole on these instruments has been tapered down to almost nothing, giving the appearance of rediculously thin tops. Many builders do taper around the soundhole
Click to expand...

I never heard of anyone intentionally doing this. What would be the advantage of thinning the wood especially around the sound hole? That's the area of the sound board that I want to be the stiffest.
 
What I was thinking too Chuck. I put a sound hole patch in that makes the top appear much thicker than it actually is just so that sound hole has some support. After all you are cutting a hole in the area that the instrument wants to fold itself into.
 
The whole thing about building is it is like a ballet - a perfect synchroncity bewteen ahtleticism and art. The balance between the various elements is what it is about so to think of the instrument as a function of it's top thickness is not the whole story. My backs are thicker than my fronts because I want them to hold their shape and not sink between the braces. The sides however are quite thin, stiffened with solid linings. My fronts have a compound curve.... I could go on but you get the point - sound/vloume/tone/depth, however you define them/it is the sum of a lot of parts.
 
Would this be the right place to ask where to purchase a tutu to wear when I build ukuleles, or would it be better addressed in "Buying Tips?"
 
oudin said:
I want to add that the Kala tops are actually a similar thickness (though on the thinner side) to what many luthiers are using. I do apogolize to mention this if it is obvious, but the area around the sound hole on these instruments has been tapered down to almost nothing, giving the appearance of rediculously thin tops. Many builders do taper around the soundhole, but Kala does this notably. My solid mahog kala improved and "opened up" noticably. I played it hard for several hours nearly every day for about two and a half years. I bought my ma the same uke at the same time and hers has sat in the corner most of the time and when it is played it is not for very long. To compare these two ukes is surprising.

I don't think using Kala or any other inexpensive import uke would be a good example on how things should be done and would recommend anyone to do there homework in luthiery before just copying this sort of thing.
Click to expand...
 
BlackBearUkes said:
I don't think using Kala or any other inexpensive import uke would be a good example on how things should be done and would recommend anyone to do there homework in luthiery before just copying this sort of thing.
Click to expand...

Yeah really. Problem is some folks will only read as far as that post and believe stuff like this.
 
oudin said:
the area around the sound hole on these instruments has been tapered down to almost nothing, giving the appearance of rediculously thin tops. Many builders do taper around the soundhole, but Kala does this notably.
Click to expand...

Can someone confirm this...
...I find it difficult to believe.
 
Who said Kala should be emulated? Perhaps I was providing an explanation for why Kala tops appear to be paper thin. There are several reasons one may choose to either round the edge of the sound hole or favor the inner edge somewhat in doing so. Foremost I suspect is aesthetics, followed by reducing the likelihood of splitting at the sound hole either by end-grain humidity exchange or by the player catching the edge of the sound hole while playing, and lastly I infer that some Spanish instruments being sanded by hand received some of this treatment by default. If you are imagining that the sound hole is tapered more than that amount which would achieve these sorts of things, than I failed to explain the process accurately.
 
I thought we had agreed in a previous thread that the "opening up effect" was a myth:D...And It's just a sales ploy to get rid of duff uke's by convincing the buyer that it will get better sounding as it ages.;)...Job for The Mythbusters Team I think.
 
To the point, true and unequivocable Ken. I don't go for that stuff either even though my cliemts asy their instruments get better.
 
I'm with Tim. I've played guitars for 20 years and ukes for a few and I can't say that I've noticed the sound of any instrument getting better or even changing markedly once the finish has cured. What I think happens is the persons likes and dislikes change along with his hearing thereby effecting his perception of the instruments sound. Not sure you could prove it one way or the other but that's my $0.02.
 
Paul December said:
Can someone confirm this...
...I find it difficult to believe.
Click to expand...

I just played a Kala yesterday, it had a very shallow body and was very loud and bright with no low end. I was feeling around to check the bracing pattern, which felt like a type of lattice bracing, but I did notice that the lip of the soundhole had been thinned almost to a point. There was a traditional stiffener patch surrounding the soundhole.
 
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