ukulele player, musician, or both?

I think this is a really good question that reaches far into the depths of people's identities and communities. Being a person who has been a part of many musical communities, some of which are instrument focused and some of which are musical style focused, I've seen a lot of attitudes go by me. For example: Banjo player, bluegrass xxx, chromatic harmonica xxx, etc, old-timey xxxx, jazz xxxx, and Ukulele xxx. Some people relate to themselves as musicians playing different instruments and styles (like me), others identify with the community (sometimes I do). But I will say that when it comes to playing music in a group or forming a band, I prefer to play with musicians who are playing on a variety of instruments rather than folks who are mainly identified with one instrument as a community or a specific style. I find the former to be a bit more flexible & usually better educated in music. Not that there's anything wrong with identifying with a community or an instrument. I'm a fan of Lyle Ritz and Toots Thielemans (the great chromatic harmonica player) - both of whom are musical giants on their respective instruments - are multi-instrumentalists as well - and have made successful "forays" into a wide variety of musical styles with a wide variety of band mates. My idea of life well-spent.

Doug Tanner
 
I posed this question to another community I am apart of and the general consensus was split:

A) You're a musician/artist/writer professionally when you reach the level that people are paying you for your goods, that you have reached recognition in your field and that you make some money - be that enough to live off or not.

And

B) You're a musician/artist/writer professional when you make enough from your chosen path to live off, otherwise it's just a hobby..

Basically, I agree more with A. That may be because I do consider myself a professional writer (prefer that term over author though it doesn't denote as much professional as I'd like) because my books are published and people but them. However, I make NO WHERE near enough to call it my main paying job. Bringing it back to the Ukulele, I still firmly believe that we are musicians because we make music. Some of us are better than others, and some of us are more skilled in many areas of music (other instruments, music theory, song writing etc) but that doesn't change the fact that the majority of us here (I would say all, but you always get one!) buy and play our Ukuleles with one main aim - to make music, and have fun doing it. Therefore, we are musicians, some of us are able to put "professional" before that and others not, but it does not take away from the fact that we are MUSICIANS and anything less does us no favours in how we are perceived by others.

I actually experienced my first time of "Ukuleles aren't real instruments" when I posted this question elsewhere, and for those people calling ourselves anything but musicians gives fuel to their fire, at least in my opinion it does.

Really interesting thread, janeray, glad to have been a part of this discussion!
 
Hmm - Van Gogh never sold a painting in his lifetime, Wes Montgomery didn't "make it" until he was in his mid thirties or so (if I remember right) and until then worked full time at the post office. Given the current climate in terms of paid gigs for musicians, being a "professional" musician seems like a rather difficult road to hoe - kind of like the odds of a college basketball player making it to the NBA, which is about 1 in 400 (there are approximately 20,000 NCAA Bball players and maybe 50 a year make the NBA). I know someone who teaches at Berklee who estimates that maybe 2 out of 200 students might make a decent living performing - of course there is teaching, etc. If making a living at it is the standard for being a musician there sure won't be very many of us in the future. Been to a wedding where they hire a DJ lately?
 
It's interesting to see how often the concept of getting paid is what defines whether someone is a musician or not. Myself, I couldn't agree less. There are plenty of people in the music business who make a lot of money that I (personally) wouldn't consider anything near a musician.

For me, it's about proficiency, ability, talent, and depth of understanding. And since I really have none of those qualities when it comes to music, I would never consider myself a musician. However, since I can pick up an 'ukulele or guitar and strum out some songs, I do consider myself a player. If it were a Venn diagram, then player would be the much larger circle, with musician as a smaller one within it.

Ultimately, though, the question seems more about one's own perception and personal beliefs than any sort of objective application of the term. After all, if someone self-labels themself a musician, who am I to disagree with them, even if I do, in fact, disagree?
 
I posed this question to another community I am apart of and the general consensus was split:

A) You're a musician/artist/writer professionally when you reach the level that people are paying you for your goods, that you have reached recognition in your field and that you make some money - be that enough to live off or not.

And

B) You're a musician/artist/writer professional when you make enough from your chosen path to live off, otherwise it's just a hobby..

Both definitions address the idea of "profession," which I believe has come to imply remunerative employment... that's a whole other aspect to this discussion, I think. If you actually look at dictionary definitions of "profession" though, this isn't what it originally meant - the emphasis was on higher education with an objective of serving others, and originally applied to medicine, law, and clergy. Interesting to look at it from the higher education perspective - among the arts/music/writing types I know, many of the best are self-taught and have never set foot in a university of any kind. And many of those that did never finished their degrees.

Given the current climate in terms of paid gigs for musicians, being a "professional" musician seems like a rather difficult road to hoe

Sad but true in our cheaper-is-always-better world.

For the purposes of this discussion, I'm not sure that the word "professional" adds much because by either definition - meaning a postgrad music degree, or getting paid to do it - it only applies to a fortunate few of us here. I wasn't thinking about either - education or money - when I began this thread, and I tend to think that neither a piece of paper on the wall nor a paycheck in the bank makes one a better "musician."
 
I know what you mean about feeling like a fraud when referring to yourself as a musician.... I'm a bass player! When I was in high school, a guitarist friend, a piano player friend and I entered the school talent contest (with a lounge-jazz rendition of "Winnie the Pooh", sort of in the style of Bill Murray's lounge act character... All just to be silly). We had billed ourselves as "Three Guys Who Are Musicians", which I came up with. Unbeknownst to me, my friends INSTANTLY changed it to "Two Guys Who Are Musicians And A Guy With A Bass" (a MUCH funnier name), and that's how we were introduced as the curtain opened. And that's been my legacy for my 32 years as a bassist. I'm okay with that!
I DO consider myself a musician, and I think I'm a pretty good (if totally untrained) bassist.
As far as "professional" goes, I like to call myself a "part-time professional" musician. I almost always get paid when I play bass, but don't play nearly often enough to make it my actual job. I've yet to have a real paid ukulele gig, although I've played it at a couple of paid bass gigs.
I've dabbled with acoustic guitar for nearly as long as I've played bass, but not really at all since I picked up the uke. Ukulele is more fun for me, and there was never much chance that I was ever going to be all that good on guitar... Plus, vintage Martin ukuleles are more affordable than vintage Martin guitars!
 
If you aspire to a reasonable level of proficiency either playing an instrument or singing, then you are a musician. At least that's how I see it.

More specifically, I consider myself an amateur musician as I perform my music mostly without pay, though I do belong to a folk band who get a few paid gigs a year. Other groups I belong to are strictly amateur, though. They do give concerts but the money raised is either used to help band or choir finances or is for charity.

Whether giving performances is what makes you a musician or not I don't know, but I am certainly clear that you don't have to be a professional and someone who belongs to an organised amateur musical group is quite legitimately described as a musician.

If your ukulele group showcases itself a couple of times a year in a local shopping centre or you perform either solo or with a group in a local village hall concert, then during the time you are performing at least, you are a musician even if you don't see yourself as one for the rest of the time.

Being paid or not has nothing to do with it, in my opinion. It's the fact that you make music that makes you a musician.
 
I ended up thinking about this thread while at work today. I teach music, which in England is compulsory until the equivalent of American high school. At that point, it becomes an option. The curriculum is very different, and is actually quite broad, so it attracts all sorts. In years past, my predecessors tried to encourage enrolment among students who were going to do well. When I took over, my attitude was, "I'll take anyone who's a musician".

Which I think is an interesting idea, and one I had never questioned. I know who I mean. But it's a sort of metaphysical thing. The boys I don't turn away are the ones who have music in them. In their veins. Somehow, I feel like I can spot them, after having taught them for 2 years.

It's odd, because a 13 year-old boy who has only been playing for a while defies most descriptions in this thread, but I can talk to that boy, and know he's a musician.

(BTW, I teach at a boys school. No sexist bias here. ;) )
 
Great thread, everyone. So many different, valid approaches to these questions. Lots of food for thought.

When I was younger, I didn't identify as a musician. The funny thing is, I played more music back then. Instead I'd say, "I play drums in (insert name of obscure 90s indie rock band here)." or "I play guitar in (still more obscure 90s indie rock band)."

But in response to the OP, I immediately identified myself as a musician. I don't remember when and how I started to identify myself as a "musician" rather than a "player". Hmm...
 
Great thread, everyone. So many different, valid approaches to these questions. Lots of food for thought.

When I was younger, I didn't identify as a musician. The funny thing is, I played more music back then. Instead I'd say, "I play drums in (insert name of obscure 90s indie rock band here)." or "I play guitar in (still more obscure 90s indie rock band)."

But in response to the OP, I immediately identified myself as a musician. I don't remember when and how I started to identify myself as a "musician" rather than a "player". Hmm...

Do you play in a band now? My first reaction upon reading this was that when you were younger, you identified with the obscure 90s indie rock scene and emphasized that, but perhaps you don't as much now.

And to reiterate - it's not the player-vs.-musician aspect of this that made me question it in the first place, but the ukulele-player-vs.-musician aspect. Which sort of is similar to the indie-rock-vs.-musician comparison Ralf made, in identifying with the scene rather than musicianship in general.
 
I don't actually think of myself as a ukulele player, so much as a ukulele advocate. Which is a different thing. Different outlook. Different goals.
 
I don't actually think of myself as a ukulele player, so much as a ukulele advocate. Which is a different thing. Different outlook. Different goals.

This puts an interesting spin on things! Ukulele advocate... I like that. I have a friend who we call the Ukulele Ambassador, because she makes a point of talking uke with anybody who will listen.

But then let me ask... as a ukulele advocate, does this make you only interested in musical things as they relate to ukulele? For instance, would you buy a CD just because a ukulele was being played on it? Or attend an event just because ukulele players would be there?
 
Fortunately, I have a 2 year-old and a 4 year-old, so buying things not related to children and attending events not related to children pretty much doesn't happen. Hence my role of ukulele advocate is left to occupy the space at work, some bandwidth online, and what time I have to play and compose in the evenings. When I remember to bring my ukulele home.

I suppose my role as a ukulele advocate is a long-term mission. Would I buy something just because a ukulele was on it? No. Because, actually, that would undermine my advocacy. Ukuleles are capable of beautiful, wonderful, complicated, sublime things. Buying a CD where ukuleles are bounced off the lid of a piano for musical effect probably wouldn't jive with my philosophy. I don't like seeing ukuleles denegrated.

All that being said, I'm not all that far down this road, and there are people here who have done much more for the ukulele than me and my few, humble efforts.

(Actually, the piano lid thing might catch my interest. A CD with all of Slayer's hits played on ukulele is more the sort of thing I loathe.)
 
Fortunately, I have a 2 year-old and a 4 year-old, so buying things not related to children and attending events not related to children pretty much doesn't happen. Hence my role of ukulele advocate is left to occupy the space at work, some bandwidth online, and what time I have to play and compose in the evenings. When I remember to bring my ukulele home.

I suppose my role as a ukulele advocate is a long-term mission. Would I buy something just because a ukulele was on it? No. Because, actually, that would undermine my advocacy. Ukuleles are capable of beautiful, wonderful, complicated, sublime things. Buying a CD where ukuleles are bounced off the lid of a piano for musical effect probably wouldn't jive with my philosophy. I don't like seeing ukuleles denegrated.

All that being said, I'm not all that far down this road, and there are people here who have done much more for the ukulele than me and my few, humble efforts.

(Actually, the piano lid thing might catch my interest. A CD with all of Slayer's hits played on ukulele is more the sort of thing I loathe.)

Well, give those kids a couple of ukuleles! :)

I hear you, and agree completely; that's the kind of thing I would loathe as well. Although I'm not sure that I'd recognize one of Slayer's hits no matter what it was played on...
 
I know what you mean about feeling like a fraud when referring to yourself as a musician.... I'm a bass player! When I was in high school, a guitarist friend, a piano player friend and I entered the school talent contest (with a lounge-jazz rendition of "Winnie the Pooh", sort of in the style of Bill Murray's lounge act character... All just to be silly). We had billed ourselves as "Three Guys Who Are Musicians", which I came up with. Unbeknownst to me, my friends INSTANTLY changed it to "Two Guys Who Are Musicians And A Guy With A Bass" (a MUCH funnier name), and that's how we were introduced as the curtain opened. And that's been my legacy for my 32 years as a bassist. I'm okay with that!
I DO consider myself a musician, and I think I'm a pretty good (if totally untrained) bassist.
As far as "professional" goes, I like to call myself a "part-time professional" musician. I almost always get paid when I play bass, but don't play nearly often enough to make it my actual job. I've yet to have a real paid ukulele gig, although I've played it at a couple of paid bass gigs.
I've dabbled with acoustic guitar for nearly as long as I've played bass, but not really at all since I picked up the uke. Ukulele is more fun for me, and there was never much chance that I was ever going to be all that good on guitar... Plus, vintage Martin ukuleles are more affordable than vintage Martin guitars!

Oh my gosh, some of the best and most respected musicians I know are bass players. And besides that they're often the ones with the most work and often have skills in the greatest varieties of styles. We lead players LOVE bass players....... It's like the quarterback and the offensive line - without them the guy out there on his own really is on his own ......
 
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