Rentrant Bb tuning on tenor uke

Was conversing with Dirk from Southcoast Uke about using his light/med. rentrant strings on my tenor. I told him that it sounded like someone "Cut the balls off" compared to the linears. He suggested a med. rentrant and try Bb tuning. (f,Bb,D,G) Holy Moly, it changed the how ambiance of the uke and "the boy" got his weblos back bigtime. What a fun tuning.

A person can play the same chords as C tuning but the sound would be two steps down from a C. If I wanted to play in C tuning I can either put the capo two frets up and play reg. C type chords or better yet, play the chord shape that would make a C chord in Bb tuning.

So in Bb tuning a C chord would be played like a D shape in C tuning. F chord would be played like a G shape and G7 would be played like a A7.

What fun and even makes this ole froggy voice sound a little better than a croak.

Thanks Dirk, I learned more about tunings; why they fit particular instruments and why certain strings should be used on a particular instrument, in three days than I've learned in decades of playing stringed instruments.

Try it, it's easy to tune back to C tuning if you don't like it.

I love Bb tuning too Patrick. I've even used it on sopranos, but any scale can sound nice...kinda warms thing up a bit and mellows things out. With the baritone a Bb tuning can sound really nice too; there you're raising the pitch 1.5 steps and it can liven and sweeten things up...increasing the resonance and sometimes - depending on the uke - volume too, with the higher string tension. It's just fun to play with tunings fullstop. Experimentation leads to many breakthroughs. Happy for your discovery mate and here's to many more! Cheers!

Wow--- love the sound it the Bb tuning on my RTSH. I have it strung with low g (F), and a wound c (Bb) and what a great sound on that instrument. Since I have so many tenors, I am thinking of keeping this one tuned in Bb.

I'm so pleased that more and more folks are trying out lower tunings. As soon as I tuned the south coast heavies I had on my BlueGrass tenor down to A, I knew that I would never be going back to GCEA, at least not on that instrument.

I found that my big-bodied BlueGrass tenor loves being tuned EAC#F#. I tried that tuning on my MP with heavies, but it didn't quite work. The MP's body is likely half the volume (not decibel volume; think cubic inches) of the Bluegrass; I tuned it up to Bb and, man, does it sound good now!


How do you guys like the lower tension when you tune down?

I have been using Southcoast mediums on my Kamaka tenor in B flat tuning for awhile now. The ukulele has a fuller sound and my singalongs are more comfortable compared to high G tuning. I highly recommend giving it a try.

I have re-entrant Bb tuning on one of my baritones.

On the baritone size at least, you don't need to commit to one brand of strings.
I'm pretty sure any brand of regular tenor strings would work tuned down to Bb.

Currently have Fremont Blackline tenor strings tuned to Bb on a baritone. Tension is perfect, sounds great.

I totally want to have a B flat tuning on one of my ukes. For me it's the quintessential tuning for jazz, just thinking about it makes me daydream about second-line brass band parades in New Orleans. Then I start nodding along imaginary rhythms. Whoops, doing it now! lol
I'm a big fan of the TV show Treme and I laughed tones when Antoine Batiste kept shouting at one of his musicians to play in Bb, so the idea of having a uke in this tuning makes me giggle inside.
I'll try it on my up-coming baritone when I get it, got advices from Dirk about it too. Although I did plan to have that one in open G tuning... So this might be a good excuse to get a tenor at some point... Tenors tuned GCEA tend to have a bit too much string tension in my taste anyway, so tuning one down a notch might be just the way to go! Hurray!

I don't get the advantage of tuning down to play in Bb - as the Bb position with regular "C" tuning is like F in baritone tuning ("G" tuning, right?) and that is a great position for playing swing and jazz chord progressions on the tenor. Lowering it so you would be in the position where you used to play C would mean you would have to play way up the neck to play in C where you used to play in D - not nearly as comfortable a position for swing chords?? Now if it sounds better, fine, but functionally it doesn't seem to help.

However, I could see the advantage of tuning the tenor to "G". What sort of strings would enable that tuning on a tenor?


Doug

wendellfiddler said:

I don't get the advantage of tuning down to play in Bb - as the Bb position with regular "C" tuning is like F in baritone tuning ("G" tuning, right?) and that is a great position for playing swing and jazz chord progressions on the tenor. Lowering it so you would be in the position where you used to play C would mean you would have to play way up the neck to play in C where you used to play in D - not nearly as comfortable a position for swing chords?? Now if it sounds better, fine, but functionally it doesn't seem to help.

However, I could see the advantage of tuning the tenor to "G". What sort of strings would enable that tuning on a tenor?


Doug

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It's an advantage if you play a piece of music that is in the key of Bb

There's nothing you can do to make your instrument sound better than to find the most resonant tuning! There is a lot of sophisticated acoustical analytics around, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to grasp the concept that a higher range of notes works better on smaller instruments, and lower notes work better as they increase in size. It's true for the violin family, for horns, for bells, for just about anything that makes a sound.

Publishing companies would love to keep things simple, and "best sound" may not be the only reason to select a tuning, but for every other instrument but the ukulele, best sound seems pretty high up the list.

The formula that we like is to select a tuning that has it's lowest note at least 1/2 step above the resonance of the body. A typical Tenor Ukulele resonates at low G, so a low note of A flat or higher would be ideal. Now though, you factor in one more thing. The Tenor was a very commercial design - the first attempt to build an ukulele for "guitar tuning". As a result, the scale is a bit short to have normal gauge strings produce an A flat tuning.

You see Jamie uses our Heavy Gauge set to go down to A tuning. That's a wonderful, mellow sound - fully resonant on a Tenor body. We usually recommend B flat (f' - b flat - d - g'), however, because this puts the strings into the stronger end of the standard gauges - in our case, "Medium Gauge", giving a bit more brightness and response. Both tunings are excellent on a Tenor - it's a matter of personal preference and the instrument itself factors in as well.

While there will obviously be those who like reentrant C tuning on a Tenor, it has lots of problems from an acoustical standpoint. First, it leaves a lot of unused capacity in that big body. Second, to drive the large soundboard, the tensions have to be pretty high. In many cases this is not only uncomfortable, but detracts from the sound in another way, by limiting vibrato.

Finally, B flat has another advantage. If you've learned to play in C tuning, and play in groups from time to time, it's a great place to use a capo. The 2nd position puts you back in C tuning. On a Tenor fretboard, you still have a lot of room. In group settings, optimal sound is usually not all that important, and you're not usually playing up at the top of the fretboard.

BTW, for those of you who are what I call "Big Ukers" (you like the big sizes), the Baritone also is an excellent candidate for B flat. Because of the bigger body, you drop the 4th string an octave for a "low 4th" B flat tuning. A typical Baritone body resonates at around d#, and the low 4th string of a B flat tuning is an "f". Again, it is slightly higher than it could be, but again, string gauges at that pitch make it very attractive versus a slightly lower pitch. Also, once again, a capo puts you up to C tuning in the second position.

On the Baritone, linear B flat is a tuning that's much clearer and cleaner than the traditional linear G tuning; much fuller and richer than tuning to C. You end up with that combination that so many look for: a reentrant (your Tenor) and a linear (your Baritone) instrument - both in B flat - both wonderfully resonant, and both easily converted to C tuning with the click of a capo.

p.s: lalou hit the nail on the head when he mentioned songs written in B flat being easier to play in that tuning. Most jazz songs were originally written in that key, as it is the natural key for horns. If you're playing them in C tuning, wendell, you're most likely playing an "ukulele transposition" of the original arrangement. If you have access to the old sheet music, you can usually find a B flat arrangement, and you'll be surprised how nice it sounds and plays compared to C.

Lalou said:

It's an advantage if you play a piece of music that is in the key of Bb

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Please explain why you find it easier to play in Bb in Bb tuning? I find playing in Bb in C tuning is no more difficult than any other key? I understand how it might sound better based on the vibration of the instrument, but playing Bb to me is like playing in F on a guitar or baritone Uke - position wise - not a difficult key, and in fact a key that gives you good/convenient position options for the VI II V and III chords.

dt

I guess it could be argued that to a highly experienced musician, the difference in difficulty of playing in different keys on any instrument becomes arbitrary.
But most of us find it easier to play songs in keys which is the "native" key for that instrument.

A regular GCEA ukulele's "native" key is said to be C, due to the low C string.
A lot of us learn to play a song in one key. The C major scale is generally considered the easiest to memorise, because the ukulele is a transposing instrument in "C".

Naturally, someone who is familiar with playing in C on a C-tuned ukulele will find it easier to learn songs in the key of C, as well as improvise/solo along to songs in C.

Playing in different keys adds a bit of difficulty, because the person has to modify what notes they play. They have to learn a different scale, such as the Bb scale.
Introduce a ukulele that is tuned in "Bb", then they can automatically translate everything they play in the key of C on their C tuned ukulele, to playing in Bb on a Bb tuned ukulele.

I also play trumpet. The concert trumpet is in the key of Bb. It is much much easier to play songs in the key of Bb than in other keys due to ease of fingering + using a more familiar scale.

Perhaps to a trained musician, especially those who are classically trained, playing in any key is a given.
But if there is an easier, more efficient way to do it, why not? In addition, playing a song in the key of Bb on a Bb-tuned uke and a C uke will sound different, as the Bb-tuned uke will have some notes that the C uke doesn't (lower octave).

wendellfiddler said:

Please explain why you find it easier to play in Bb in Bb tuning? I find playing in Bb in C tuning is no more difficult than any other key? I understand how it might sound better based on the vibration of the instrument, but playing Bb to me is like playing in F on a guitar or baritone Uke - position wise - not a difficult key, and in fact a key that gives you good/convenient position options for the VI II V and III chords.

dt

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I see what you mean. For me it's easier because a Bb chord in Bb tuning is just a C chord shape, which is easier to fret than a Bb chord shape: less fingers involved so more fingers available for variations. And if you play along by ear to a song in Bb tuning, it's easier to play a IV or V or such along with it because your fingers remember the position for say IV and V in relation to C as open chords F and G, instead of having to think about what IV and V are in the key of Bb and how to make them. Also, the voicing will sound a bit different because the lowest note will be different: a Bb chord will have low F as the lowest note instead of a low Bb if you use a linear tuning, and a Bb instead of a D in reentrant tuning.

(Looks like we answered at the same time Kissing, haha )

Wendell sounds like a very accomplished musician who's worked out some jazz progressions he likes very much. I would like to point out, though, that in pretty much every instrument but the ukulele "good sound" has won out over convenience.

That's not to say that there should be anything incovenient about playing in B flat. For the majority of ukulele players (80-90%) who primarily play solo, you don't have to transpose or change anything at all. Simply tune to B flat, and "pretend" you're playing in C. Everything works the same, the pitch is just a bit lower. George Formby (primarily a solo player), used to have a bunch of ukuleles in "graduated tunings" on stage. He would pick up the one that let him play the arrangement he liked in a range that fit his voice. This is a tremendous advantage!

Now I'm going to imagine some things about Wendell (and of course I will be glad to be corrected). I'm going to imagine that this may not work so well for him, because he plays (professionally?) in a group, and so switching his tuning would mean he has to transpose. I'll also imagine that he plays up the neck a good bit in that group, either chording or in solos.

That's actually a pretty rare situation with ukulele players. If you do play in a group from time to time, it's usually not anything that requires much work up the neck. In that case, in order to keep from having to transpose the arrangements you learned in C tuning, you can convert your B flat Ukulele back to C tuning with one click. This is why the capo was invented. With B flat, your capo goes on the second fret, leaving plenty of room for what pratically anybody would usually play in a group setting.

BTW, altough his jazz style was uniquely "ukulele", and not "guitar on an ukulele", Cliff Edwards played probably the finest Jazz ever heard on an ukulele (o.k., his singing might have contributed a little something). Listen to his later solo work on Jazzology. It's all played on (guess what!), a B flat ukulele.

Well, I think you got it about right. I don't use the uke in a "group", but I do use it in a duo if that counts - and I use it to accompany singers and players of solo instruments like fiddles, chromatic harmonicas, etc. Thus, it is helpful if the key I learn a tune originally is the one most commonly used for the tune. Of course with vocalists this can be all over the map - for that reason I've found that playing "by number" is very helpful. Knowing the chords in each key according to the scale one is playing in is a nifty way to transpose more easily - it's not easy to do, and I'm by no means a master of the technique, but I'm working on it. So I don't find changing tuning to be very user friendly - and yes, I play as far up the neck as I can and I suggest to my students that you find at least two and preferably three ways to make every chord you use.

Doug

kissing said:

I have re-entrant Bb tuning on one of my baritones.

On the baritone size at least, you don't need to commit to one brand of strings.
I'm pretty sure any brand of regular tenor strings would work tuned down to Bb.

Currently have Fremont Blackline tenor strings tuned to Bb on a baritone. Tension is perfect, sounds great.

Click to expand...

I had my baritone in c, but dropped it to Bb and I love it. There just seems to be a richer fuller sound in this key. I think I'll have to try it on a tenor next.

I just got a new Pono MT-8 8-string tenor for my birthday (it was purchased at HMS). Wonderful instrument and lots of fun, but I need to experiment with the strings. Note: I'm playing fingerstyle on this uke (16th century music written for the 4-course Renaissance guitar, which used low-tension gut strings).

My Pono came with Koolau Mahana strings tuned in C. The tension was so high that I couldn't play my music on it. I tuned it down to Bb, now it's much easier to play and I think it sounds fine. I might even drop it to A.

I would prefer to find lower-tension strings so I can tune in C, as I'd like to be able to play in groups. Any suggestions for a low-tension 8-string set? maybe Aquila, or one of the Southcoast sets? I was thinking of the Southcoast no-wound 8-string set tuned down to C instead of the recommended D.

Like Doug, I like to play many chord shapes of a chord. It's mostly just a matter of making the shape and moving up or down the fret for the key played. Some songs sound better in a particular chord shape so then it's just a matter of barring or capoeing to the key needed.

I'm waiting for a set of Aquila U11 tenor strings to tune my Pono tenor to "tenor" tuning - DGBE (high D). I've learned that Lyle Ritz uses this tuning - makes sense - more uke-like than a baritone but same chords/key as a guitar. We'll see how it goes. It will be a challenge to keep the keys straight, but it's also good practice to learn tunes in more than one key, so.......

Doug

I use the ukulele to accompany my own singing, so I use a tuning that best suits the keys I mostly sing in. As it happens, gCEA suits me fine most of the time. I know many guitarists and they use capos but though I've used a capo occcsionally, I find it very cramped, especially on a soprano which I favour. An alternative is to have ukes in different tunings, so I have a soprano in D tuning and a concert in Bb tuning and this enables me to sing in a range of keys with relatively few chord shapes.

I appreciate what wendelfiddler is saying, but until I've got on top of certain chord shapes this keeps me going. Anyway, my focus is on the song and I like to keep accompaniments simple.

Also, I don't find Bb a particularly easy chord to play. In fact I find barre chords generally quite difficult. It's not so much making the chord as the transition. Until I get that sorted, different tunings helps. Even when I do I will carry on using them as you get different sounds. Tuning my concert uke down to Bb has given it a more mellow sound which I like. I also like the brightness of my D tuned soprano.