stevepetergal
Well-known member
I think a flat finish looks cheap.
Your opinion of flat finish?
- Thread starter finkdaddy
- Start date
For me, and it sounds like for a lot of musicians, looks are not why we are buying or playing. To each his own though
consitter
Well-known member
Not a fan of flat finishes. As someone else mentioned, parts of it will get shiny after use. Some like showing wear, and there's not a thing wrong with that, just not my thing. Looking new is NOT going to last forever if it's used, but I would like mine to for as long as it possibly can, therefore, give me a shiny finish.
consitter
Well-known member
Depends. I saw a Lanakai Zebrawood with a flat finish that I thought looked very cheap ::ducks for cover::
Then I saw a matte finish KoAloha custom that I thought looked like a work of art.
true enough, the amount of finish is what changes the sound, not the gloss, which is just polishing. Gloss is usually thicker because you have to have something there to polish. Satin is usually a light coat so it will dry more quickly and be done with.
The ideal varnish is probably a violin varnish, like Ko'olau's spirit varnish - which costs $1,000 just for the varnish and takes a year.
I once stripped the lacquer finish from a mandolin and brushed on ordinary shellac, and it sounded much much better. I did it to some guitars too and the sound really woke up. Not as much protection and not considered true instrument finish, but works for me.
Kōāpa‘a
Active member
A slight wrinkle to the question. Does the cost of the instrument affect what kind of finish is expected/preferred? For example, does your preference/expectation change if the instrument is $2000+ vs. ~$1200 vs. $600 or less? The costs are somewhat arbitrary but are meant to approximate a "custom" vs. entry level "K" brand vs. more affordable ukes.
Kōāpa‘a;1478595 said:
Definitely for me. I wouldn't like truoil for an expensive uke and no matter how good of a sound it may produce, French Polish is too fragile in my opinion.
OldePhart
Well-known member
Kōāpa‘a;1478595 said:
For me, not at all. In fact I just ordered my Boat Paddle with oil finish because that's what I prefer, but if I was to purchase a similarly-priced uke already built that happened to have a gloss finish that wouldn't stop me (I would expect that finish to be absolutely flawless in that price range, though).
John
I would say that the majority of my ukuleles are gloss, and except for a nicked factory second, all flawless despite their price. The only ones that are easily chipped are the painted Makala Dolphin at the entry level price point. Even ukes under $100 from Kala came with (and still have) a flawless finish.Kōāpa‘a;1478595 said:
–Lori
wendellfiddler
Well-known member
Mya Moe uses an oil finish as their standard and it's beautiful. Kind of satin - it has a little gloss, feels great, looks great and doesn't seem to have the downside issues of sprayed matt finishes. Their ukes are reasonably priced for what they are, but certainly not inexpensive. Good quality for the money.
Doug
OP
OP
finkdaddy
Well-known member
Wow, there is a lot of good stuff in this thread! There is a lot to consider, and a lot of new things to try. Thanks everyone!
bborzell
Well-known member
Depends on the wood. Some grains will really pop with a gloss type finish while others just get shiney. I turned a block of spalted maple into a bowl that exploded (in the figurative sense) after I applied a gloss finish. Up to that point, it just looked like a bowl with jagged black striations.
An averagly applied flat finish will always look better than an average gloss finish. Gloss highlights grain nicely and reveals both construction and finish flaws to a degree that would be hard to keep looking at without cringing.
Aesthetically, I prefer a good gloss finish on a fine crafted instrument.
An averagly applied flat finish will always look better than an average gloss finish. Gloss highlights grain nicely and reveals both construction and finish flaws to a degree that would be hard to keep looking at without cringing.
Aesthetically, I prefer a good gloss finish on a fine crafted instrument.
OldePhart
Well-known member
@Lori - well...there's flawless and flawless... I've yet to see a truly flawless gloss finish on most import ukes, even at the $300-$400 range. The higher end Ponos might be the one exception to that, but they're above the $300 to $400 price point, too, and I doubt that all of them are flawless though I've seen a couple that definitely were. For most "factory" ukes the nice shiny glossiness comes by using heavy coats of poly finish and you can almost always see where the finish is thicker around joints (neck heel to body, fret board to sound board, etc.). That "pooling" is partially the nature of poly finish but is made worse by the fact that generally one or two heavy coats are sprayed on. It's still very pretty and on my Mainland gloss mango tenor I have no problem with the very slight pooling along the seam between fret board and top - on a $1500 uke I wouldn't accept a finish like that.
There's a reason that when you order a luthier-built or other high-end instrument you will almost always pay a premium for a glossy finish - it takes a lot of extra work to do a glossy finish right. On a factory uke it's no more difficult than a satin finish, you just spray a different formula of poly.
A low-end glossy finish emphasizes the shine of the finishing material, a high-end glossy finish emphasizes the beauty of the underlying wood..
John
I've yet to see a truly flawless gloss finish on most import ukes, even at the $300-$400 range. The higher end Ponos might be the one exception to that, but they're above the $300 to $400 price point, too, and I doubt that all of them are flawless though I've seen a couple that definitely were. For most "factory" ukes the nice shiny glossiness comes by using heavy coats of poly finish and you can almost always see where the finish is thicker around joints (neck heel to body, fret board to sound board, etc.). That "pooling" is partially the nature of poly finish but is made worse by the fact that generally one or two heavy coats are sprayed on. It's still very pretty and on my Mainland gloss mango tenor I have no problem with the very slight pooling along the seam between fret board and top - on a $1500 uke I wouldn't accept a finish like that.There's a reason that when you order a luthier-built or other high-end instrument you will almost always pay a premium for a glossy finish - it takes a lot of extra work to do a glossy finish right. On a factory uke it's no more difficult than a satin finish, you just spray a different formula of poly.
A low-end glossy finish emphasizes the shine of the finishing material, a high-end glossy finish emphasizes the beauty of the underlying wood..
John
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kapahulu50
Well-known member
A low-end glossy finish emphasizes the shine of the finishing material, a high-end glossy finish emphasizes the beauty of the underlying wood..
John[/QUOTE]
Couldn't agree more - this one is custom Kanile'a, the depth of the grain really shows due to the quality of the finish
John[/QUOTE]
Couldn't agree more - this one is custom Kanile'a, the depth of the grain really shows due to the quality of the finish
H
Hippie Dribble
Guest
This exactly! ^
Gloss finishes compromise playability I find. Less freedom to slide up and down the neck as the thumb always catches, and then, if it's warm and your a touch sweaty it's slips and slides around.
the easier to put on, the easier to take off...it won't last as long
OldePhart
Well-known member
There isn't really a strong correlation between how hard a finish is to apply and how durable it is. In fact, one could almost say the opposite. The thick poly finishes on inexpensive gloss ukes are extremely easy to apply - almost impossible to screw up - and once cured they will take a lot more abuse than a French polish finish - which is a much more time consuming finishing technique.
I have some wooden flutes finished with about four coats of cooked walnut oil. You can't find an easier finish to apply - rub it on, wait ten or fifteen minutes, wipe off the excess and then wait 24 to 48 hours and buff. Do that three or four times and you have a pretty hard finish that was very easy to apply.
(Walnut oil is similar to tru-oil but is completely safe and non-toxic so I prefer it for use on flutes and such. A lot of guys turning wooden bowls use it for the same reason.)
John
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I was only thinking of nitro and truoil as my original quote was referencing expensive instruments. I've owned some nitro and truoil and the nitro is significantly harder and more durable. I've hit my nitro uke on stuff and most of the time you can't notice anything. With truoil, if I hit my uke on something, higher probability that it'll leave a mark.
Kōāpa‘a
Active member
Thanks for the response nongdam.
For me, not at all. In fact I just ordered my Boat Paddle with oil finish because that's what I prefer, but if I was to purchase a similarly-priced uke already built that happened to have a gloss finish that wouldn't stop me (I would expect that finish to be absolutely flawless in that price range, though).
Thanks for the context John especially the difference in quality control that you expect as the price goes up.
Thanks Lori.
Thank you everyone for taking the time.
Warbulele
Well-known member
I recently went through this decision, gloss or matte/satin.
Aesthetically, I like just plain buffed wood, but folks warn it doesn't hold up, so some finish is recommended. Plus it's only available on a custom, which costs much more than what I could afford.
So theoretically, I'd like matte/satin, but then I looked into how it is achieved in modern instruments...
Most production Ukes have a matte/satin finish which is achieved simply by addition of an antireflective material. It's chalk. Talc.
It still has the same varnish/sealant as the glossy coating, you just don't see so much light reflecting off it.
This makes it look, to my eyes, like a fine coating of dust, or even like the Uke surface is a tiny bit like a milky veneer of opaque plastic feaux-wood veneer. It's subtle, but made me opt for gloss. The opaqueness made it look less genuine, rather than more. To me. To some people, it works. To each their own. I was leaning toward it before I finally realized I prefer the glossy, since at the very least I can see the wood without anything obstructing my view. This Uke is orange/tan colored Mango, which is very beautiful with gloss, it creates a warm glow, almost coppery but nicer.
Gloss does make scratches much more visible, but well loved instruments get those, the japanese call it "wabisabi", wear and tear are signs of natural life.
If they bother someone they might be able to wipe some more of the varnish/sealant into the crack, wipe the excess away with the flat edge of paper and let it dry. This is a trick that used to work on music CDs, using clear nail polish.
But as John/OP pointed out, there's a huge difference between one gloss coat and another, based on price/skill, as it is with matte/satin, which I have read can be done without antireflective agents (a thinner coat, maybe difference sealant), but in most cases is not.
Aesthetically, I like just plain buffed wood, but folks warn it doesn't hold up, so some finish is recommended. Plus it's only available on a custom, which costs much more than what I could afford.
So theoretically, I'd like matte/satin, but then I looked into how it is achieved in modern instruments...
Most production Ukes have a matte/satin finish which is achieved simply by addition of an antireflective material. It's chalk. Talc.
It still has the same varnish/sealant as the glossy coating, you just don't see so much light reflecting off it.
This makes it look, to my eyes, like a fine coating of dust, or even like the Uke surface is a tiny bit like a milky veneer of opaque plastic feaux-wood veneer. It's subtle, but made me opt for gloss. The opaqueness made it look less genuine, rather than more. To me. To some people, it works. To each their own. I was leaning toward it before I finally realized I prefer the glossy, since at the very least I can see the wood without anything obstructing my view. This Uke is orange/tan colored Mango, which is very beautiful with gloss, it creates a warm glow, almost coppery but nicer.
Gloss does make scratches much more visible, but well loved instruments get those, the japanese call it "wabisabi", wear and tear are signs of natural life.
If they bother someone they might be able to wipe some more of the varnish/sealant into the crack, wipe the excess away with the flat edge of paper and let it dry. This is a trick that used to work on music CDs, using clear nail polish.
But as John/OP pointed out, there's a huge difference between one gloss coat and another, based on price/skill, as it is with matte/satin, which I have read can be done without antireflective agents (a thinner coat, maybe difference sealant), but in most cases is not.
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