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Thread: Stop the senseless murders of US citizens.

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by StevieBGoode View Post
    Might want to check your facts. Drunk driving fatality rates were down 48% from 1991 to 2012. Still work to be done, but stricter laws and enforcement, along with greater awareness, have made a big difference.

    http://responsibility.org/sites/defa...12%20trend.gif

    -- Steve
    Trending down or not, ten thousand killed by DUI is a bunch.

    "Drunk Driving
    In 2012, 10,322 people were killed and approximately 345,000 were injured. Each crash, each death, each injury impacts not only the person in the crash, but family, friends, classmates, coworkers and more."

    Source: http://www.madd.org/drunk-driving/
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  2. #12
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    In this country, there has been a complete ban on all handguns and 'military' type rifles since the Dunblane killings, many, many years ago.

    It still doesn't stop the 'bad' elements of society getting their hands on such items and using them. Of course you can argue that restricting the number of guns goes some way to preventing the guns falling into the 'wrong' hands, but that's not the whole truth.

    The 'bad people' will just adjust their methods, which in this country has meant a meteoric rise in knife crime. Or they will simply apply for shotgun licences and use them.

    One sad repercussion of the blanket ban on legally held handguns is that when the inevitable nutter does run amok with a shotgun (as with the Cumbria shootings), or illegally procured weapon no-one is really in a position to defend themselves .......

    Personally, I'm more concerned with the number of utter incompetents that are driving around on UK roads, either with no licence, or with absolutely no regard for other road users.

    So what then? Ban all cars?
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosToo View Post
    One sad repercussion of the blanket ban on legally held handguns is that when the inevitable nutter does run amok with a shotgun (as with the Cumbria shootings), or illegally procured weapon no-one is really in a position to defend themselves .......
    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/armed-civilians-do-not-stop-mass-shootings
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  4. #14
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    I'm almost hesitant to even touch on this, but it's been on my mind all day so here goes nothing. If the details that I've been reading about this incident are true - mainly, that the assailant committed this horrific act essentially because he wasn't rich and powerful and wanted to get revenge on those who he believed slighted him for this - this is not a problem that can be solved by the government. As a society, we've got some pretty messed up values when it comes to money, power and status, and it seems to me that educating our future generations that these things don't matter should be our top priority. I wish I could express what I'm feeling about this more eloquently, and I hope there may be others reading this who get what I'm trying to say (and who are raising their kids in a way that teaches them that being a good person is more important than driving a good car).

    Words fail.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by janeray1940 View Post
    I'm almost hesitant to even touch on this, but it's been on my mind all day so here goes nothing. If the details that I've been reading about this incident are true - mainly, that the assailant committed this horrific act essentially because he wasn't rich and powerful and wanted to get revenge on those who he believed slighted him for this - this is not a problem that can be solved by the government. As a society, we've got some pretty messed up values when it comes to money, power and status, and it seems to me that educating our future generations that these things don't matter should be our top priority. I wish I could express what I'm feeling about this more eloquently, and I hope there may be others reading this who get what I'm trying to say (and who are raising their kids in a way that teaches them that being a good person is more important than driving a good car).

    Words fail.
    Actually, very eloquent - and spot on!
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by janeray1940 View Post
    If the details that I've been reading about this incident are true - mainly, that the assailant committed this horrific act essentially because he wasn't rich and powerful and wanted to get revenge on those who he believed slighted him for this...
    Actually, my understanding is that he was a sexually frustrated virgin who was angry because he wasn't getting any. Then again, if he were rich and powerful, he'd probably have had women throwing themselves at him.

    If he equated money and power with the ability to be with women, he was so wrong.

    Honestly, he wasn't some hideously ugly or deformed person where his appearance would immediately turn women away. I imagine some women might have thought he was good looking. Obviously, he was "socially challenged" and had unrealistic expectations.

    You are right that this not something the government can really do anything about.

    It starts with being raised in a home where the parents are responsible and instill appropriate values in their children. Sadly, many children don't have stable homes with good moral backgrounds these days.

  7. #17
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    It may be that focusing on hardware as the cause and therefore the solution to this problem is indicative of the materialistic society we live in. I am as guilty (materialistic) as anyone the proof being my difficulty imagining what a non-materialistic society's solution would be.
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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by itsme View Post
    Actually, my understanding is that he was a sexually frustrated virgin who was angry because he wasn't getting any. Then again, if he were rich and powerful, he'd probably have had women throwing themselves at him.

    If he equated money and power with the ability to be with women, he was so wrong.

    Honestly, he wasn't some hideously ugly or deformed person where his appearance would immediately turn women away. I imagine some women might have thought he was good looking. Obviously, he was "socially challenged" and had unrealistic expectations.

    You are right that this not something the government can really do anything about.

    It starts with being raised in a home where the parents are responsible and instill appropriate values in their children. Sadly, many children don't have stable homes with good moral backgrounds these days.
    Well said, all of it, and especially that last sentence.

  9. #19
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    Crazy is crazy, trying to examine it rationally won't get you very far. I just heard the other day that one of the columbine shooters stated that he didn't have any friends, and that he had no social life. They found out he did in fact have quite an active social life, and did things with others frequently. But that's not the way he perceived it, because he wasn't right in the head.

    Government can help, why are we allowing people who are documented as mentally unstable buy, or continue to own, lethal weapons that fire ranged projectiles?

    Sure people will always have access to knives, but it takes a lot more determination to kill someone with a knife. It's much more personal. Guns are quick and easy, any monkey can point and fire a weapon at someone in medium to close range, and if they have enough rounds, land lethal hits. Also the victim has more opportunity for self-defense in a knife attack. I'm not sure what the statistics are on survival rate of knife wounds, but I would assume they are greater than bullets? I'm not sure on that one.

    And no, I'm not anti-gun. I frequent the shotgun and rifle ranges with my 870 and my 22 rifle. I also own, and am skilled with throwing knives.
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  10. #20
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    Read it - and all it seems to try and do is dismiss all the occasions of people intervening by highlighting that they were, or had been, or were training to be, in some sort of uniformed service.

    None of which alters the fact that they DID intervene.

    I think the above posts sum it up very well - you simply cannot legislate against people with a mindset that results in them carrying out these attacks, because they will find another way ..... be that using a car, a knife or even a bomb ......... all of which we've seen in this country at some point in the past few years.

    And like I say, despite a blanket ban on handguns, people are still being killed with them over here ........
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