No more building with Brazilian Rosewood ?

The Big Kahuna said:

You know, I think this is the first time I've ever disagreed with you. Which surprised the crap out of me when you consider you're Australian, and therefore racially predisposed to be wrong on any subject.

Anyway, I look at it the same way as fur. If you buy a fur coat second-hand, it's still wrong. You aren't honouring the animal that was killed, merely perpetuating a crime. Using ivory piano keys to make bridge saddles, nuts and dot markers is no different to using a tigerskin rug to line your ukulele case. I could also have made the same point about jewellery made from gold that the nazis harvested from...well, you know what I'm saying.

Wrong is wrong, and any ivory that reaches the market in any form should be destroyed.

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HAhahhaha- Yes being an Ozzy has its problems with the ability to apply logic to some things.

Your probably right on the ivory and fur thing- I wish there weren't even little bit of it to use like old piano keys. I guess my point of view comes from being at at Gilet Guitars for 10 and seeing this 12" x 2" box full of old salvaged ivory keys just sitting there for all that time and no one ever touched it- I hate to waste stuff- i keep everything big enough to make a heel cap. So after 10 years of frustration I suppose my attitude altered in regard to just doing the best with what was in that box. I only used about 3 engraved heel caps .

Fur coats.... I was in Aspen in Jan (I got married) and alot of people walk around in obviously very new very expensive fur coats and that really angers me- That is a status thing, and needless new killing for something other then food.
2nd hand fur stuff from an antique shop. I don't mind that but I would never wear it out.

Using up some salvaged ivory keys aint a status thing and it isn't a new killing thing. Still, its good to take a total blanket stand on the matter like you have

Its all trying to make the best of a bad situation...

Peace

Aah, we're all good Bruce. No cause for you to come crawling on your hands and knees, begging for forgiveness and crying like a great big girl. You're still my mate, even though you are a great big antipodean ass-composer.

What's this, then? You know, I thought I'd say something on the title subject, but there's no way I'm participating in this thread at this point!

Bruce Sexauer said:

What's this, then? You know, I thought I'd say something on the title subject, but there's no way I'm participating in this thread at this point!

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I assume you realise that the "Bruce" in my last post doesn't in any way refer to you? It's an English/Australian in-joke.

Apologies if your post was made in fun, it's not always possible to tell when you chaps are kidding.

hahahahha- ive never seen that Monty Python!

The really funny thing is that John Cleese owns and stays at a house in Whale beach, about 20 mins drive from my place in Sydney.

Spike Milligan used to live just north of Sydney too.

Rule #6 !

Interesting where we draw our lines. I wouldn't have Jumbo die for my sins, I'm good with Tusq. And fake fur rather than a coat from a 101 Dalmatians; but what about Braz? Would you destroy instruments made of it because it's endangered? Or those with bone nuts and saddles? It is only the cute animals that should be spared? Is mother-of-pearl okay?

Blood diamonds, no. But do you know where the gold in your wedding ring came from? Once it is melted down, it all looks the same.

How is elephant ivory from a hundred year old piano key morally different from a ten thousand year old mastadon's?

Gets to be a tricky road, once you start defining what "wrong" is.

According to whom?

The Big Kahuna said:

You know, I think this is the first time I've ever disagreed with you. Which surprised the crap out of me when you consider you're Australian, and therefore racially predisposed to be wrong on any subject.

Anyway, I look at it the same way as fur. If you buy a fur coat second-hand, it's still wrong. You aren't honouring the animal that was killed, merely perpetuating a crime. Using ivory piano keys to make bridge saddles, nuts and dot markers is no different to using a tigerskin rug to line your ukulele case. I could also have made the same point about jewellery made from gold that the nazis harvested from...well, you know what I'm saying.

Wrong is wrong, and any ivory that reaches the market in any form should be destroyed.

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So on that basis, should we destroy all the old Steinway pianos that have ivory keys? How about listening to a piano concerto played by a concert pianist ON a Steinway? Is that ok or not. The stall is open and the horse has bolted.

The Big Kahuna said:

I assume you realise that the "Bruce" in my last post doesn't in any way refer to you? It's an English/Australian in-joke.

Apologies if your post was made in fun, it's not always possible to tell when you chaps are kidding.

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I haven't found the emoticon for "dry", not that I'd use it if I did.

In surprising case that I am too subtle for a brit; I'm good, thank you. I HAVE been to Oz, and I found it good.

Bruce Sexauer said:

too subtle for a brit

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Yeah, totally didn't see that coming

The Big Kahuna said:

Yeah, totally didn't see that coming

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Well awlraght, then.

I love BRW as a guitar making timber, and I have built many dozens from it. Also, I have invested in enough of the wood to build many dozens more. I know where all but a couple of sets came from and how they got from Brazil to my shop, and the story is all good. But documentation is not something I ever considered for a moment. At 67 I am a mature builder, and using this ultimate material pretty much steadily through my retirement has been my plan. This latest development is the proverbial wrench in the works for me, and also for many of my peers, as BRW seemed like a smart investment following the "buy what you know" philosophy. I expect I am going to stay with my original plan since I don't have a lot of other options at this point. It is still legal to build them, and where there is a will there is a way, I'm told.

For me the comparison between elephants and trees, especially trees that were cut before a problem was perceived, is a non- starter. I will not trade in ivory, and have had that position for at least twenty years.

I don't think dead elephant=tree! either. I was being specious to make a point; however, the OP's have raised a good question: what do you do with extant antiques? Should selling your grammy's old piano be illegal? Do we toss put the parlor guitars with ivory tuning buttons? (Or if you are a literary fan, do we lose Twain's work because Huck Finn has the n-word in it?)

Or history is full of things that used to be considered okay, but aren't now. How do you decide?

It is one thing not to use endangered critters in your current work, or to buy something questionable, but another thing to toss or destroy a piece of art that might be hundreds of years old. I am just curious as to how folks make that determination.

I started this thread and was just trying to understand who gets in trouble(goes to jail..)

I do not own any kind of animal fur ,antiques that are worth any kind of money a grand piano with ivory keys etc.. or any old Martin Guitars built in the Day with B/R..
although I understand why they did ban the selling of B/R

but I can afford some NEW Ukuleles that I plan to keep and pass on when I am done playing...and I do not have a Brazilian Rosewood one...but I have many other combinations of tone wood ukes that I can enjoy and afford....

so my main question was kind of like...who goes to jail(as this now a felony?) if somehow you get caught with an illegal new B/R instrument in you possession..
and I am totally confused on how the buyer will get caught....

not sure how the buyer can have the bad luck of being caught....correct paperwork or no paperwork?