GDAE tuning?
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mr79
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To resurrect this thread (and sidestep the fight), I'm thinking of setting up a tenor in fifths - would GDAE or CGDA be 'better' on the tenor scale?
My reason is I want to start learning a bit more low-G linear, but there are scant resources for this on the interweb... then I realised there is tons of stuff for fifths tuning!
I thought GDEA would be the right one as it is already close to GCEA, but will the longer scale of the tenor need CGDA like the mandola and viola?
My reason is I want to start learning a bit more low-G linear, but there are scant resources for this on the interweb... then I realised there is tons of stuff for fifths tuning!
I thought GDEA would be the right one as it is already close to GCEA, but will the longer scale of the tenor need CGDA like the mandola and viola?
CeeJay
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To be honest I do not know....You may have an issue with the wire wound low G trying to take it up five steps to C and it may not like the tension and bow the neck.
Go down to C and it will probably sound awfully slack .....plus you are going to have to take the E and A strings way beyond their comfort zone......I do not know how much leeway but you are talking nearly an octave for the E string and A will be higher as well.......I just tried it on Little Red (cheapy soprano) and stopped after doing G to C and C to G ......the strings did not like it and the two higher ones I don't think would have made it ....
Stick to GDAE, I would and if you want to go CGDA enquire about maybe a tenor banjo C string and some nylons that will reach those levels.......
Of course all of this could also be entirely wrong as well !!
Go down to C and it will probably sound awfully slack .....plus you are going to have to take the E and A strings way beyond their comfort zone......I do not know how much leeway but you are talking nearly an octave for the E string and A will be higher as well.......I just tried it on Little Red (cheapy soprano) and stopped after doing G to C and C to G ......the strings did not like it and the two higher ones I don't think would have made it ....
Stick to GDAE, I would and if you want to go CGDA enquire about maybe a tenor banjo C string and some nylons that will reach those levels.......
Of course all of this could also be entirely wrong as well !!
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SteveZ
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Would recommend starting with CGDA with Aquila 31U. Aquila sells this Nygut CGDA set for concerts, but they should fit well enough on tenors What I did on my concerts to tune GDAE was take the GDA strings from the CGDA set, install them and then use 20-pound test (0.018") monofilament fishing line for the E. It all works well and sounds remarkably well.
The Aquila strings have always been available from Elderly Music. Southcoastukes.com just recently started stocking a GDAE set (#EFS17-RW) for tenors that's a bit pricy ($16 range), but the retailer's reputation is good. Either way, I'd get a $3 150-yard spool of 20-pound test from Walmart or equivalent for backup. If there is any problem, it's always with the durned high-E being too weak a string and potentially popping. By the way, have never had a problem with the Aquila Nygut CGDA strings popping.
The Aquila strings have always been available from Elderly Music. Southcoastukes.com just recently started stocking a GDAE set (#EFS17-RW) for tenors that's a bit pricy ($16 range), but the retailer's reputation is good. Either way, I'd get a $3 150-yard spool of 20-pound test from Walmart or equivalent for backup. If there is any problem, it's always with the durned high-E being too weak a string and potentially popping. By the way, have never had a problem with the Aquila Nygut CGDA strings popping.
CeeJay
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See ...I knew I would be wrong LOL
-ach what do I know? I'll stick to soprano and try that out at GDAE...Mandolele here we go...Cheers.
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SteveZ
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There is no wrong way when you're having fun.....
The Aquila Soprano 30U set is what I use for my sopranos. However, the $&@#^€#. E string is so thin half of them snap on me during installation. Ergo...the fishing line E string (which never breaks).
Later this week I think I'll do some sound samples with the various ukes at GDAE...something easy like "A Fool Such As I" - seems appropriate!
southcoastukes
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This, of course, is always true!
Just the same, I think some people will have more fun when their set-up gives them back a good response and a pleasing tone.
All right, I know some folks enjoy the set-ups mentioned above, but we didn't like them at all. Ring it up to personal preference if you will, but any way you cut it, there are differences in classical strings and the instruments built for them vs. steel strings and the instruments built to handle them.
Coming from a background that included the Tenor Guitar (another 5ths tuning instrument) we fought for years to come up with what we considered to be clear, responsive 5ths tunings for the Ukulele. The best version of traditional linear tuning we ever came up with was c g d' a' for a 17" (Tenor Ukulele) scale. Even that had it's problems.
We discontinued that set as a result,and came up with two different reentrant versions - one taken from the Tenor Banjo and another from the Tenor Guitar. If you're interested, take a look at our site. Go to the "5ths Tuning" page in our string section (your own links are not allowed in the body of a letter here).
mr79
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I will head over and have a look... maybe low-G would just be easier! I love Dirk's constant effort to get people to use the strings that make their instrument sound as good as it should, despite us all insisting that stringing them with shoelaces or electrical wire and tuning them to AAAA sounds just fine 
drbekken
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I will head over and have a look... maybe low-G would just be easier! I love Dirk's constant effort to get people to use the strings that make their instrument sound as good as it should, despite us all insisting that stringing them with shoelaces or electrical wire and tuning them to AAAA sounds just fine
I second that.
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SteveZ
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Have to admit to enjoy experimenting. GDAE with a low-G and high-E creates a unique sound on a ukulele.
For those who want as "pure" a ukulele sound, but the ability to chord in 5ths fashion, an alternative is to 1) leave the high-G alone, 2) tune the C to D, 3) swap the E and A strings, keeping them tuned to their original levels. For those who prefer the low-G sound, then replace the high-G with a low-G.
The above gives those of us who have difficulty smoothly swapping from a multitude of 5ths instruments (I have mandolins, tenor guitar and tenor banjo) to keep "muscle memory" standard across a bunch of instruments. The above also reduces string costs from "specialty 5ths" to standard strings.
There is a lot to be said for keeping instrument sound as "pure" as possible. The above basically has only one modification to GCEA, and that is changing the C to D. Among my ukulele herd, my Flea Soprano follows this alternative with a high-G, and my Mitchell Concert follows this alternative with a low-G.
For me the fun of ukulele includes the broad experimentation spectrum offered by four (or more) category sizes and the range of sounds from them all. Retirement is a great time to try new things.
mr79
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Oh, I'm probably going to try it one day... I just feel sorry for Dirk, sometimes he must dread reading our threads!
Phluffy the Destroyer
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I'm just spitballing here, but it seems to me that there are an awful lot of amazing experiments that use musical instruments in a non-traditional method.
GCEA is an alternative tuning and we all know how that worked out.
I dare say that clawhammer and frailing weren't techniques originally intended for the ukulele. For that matter even Travis Picking and all sorts of other techniques that the ukulele elitists love so much were imports from other types of instruments.
And of course where would we be without people learning percussive techniques. It ain't a drum, but someone who thought outside the box figured out how to make it sound like one just enough to add a whole new level of sound to the ukulele.
Personally, I'm in the "I don't get it." camp. But I know that I don't "get it". Apparently some folks do "get it" though, and if they can make music that they enjoy then that's great. If they can "get it" well enough to make music I enjoy, so much the better.
Who knows, maybe if I'm lucky someones experiments might help me "get it" enough to discover some wild, weird, wonderful way to play.
GCEA is an alternative tuning and we all know how that worked out.
I dare say that clawhammer and frailing weren't techniques originally intended for the ukulele. For that matter even Travis Picking and all sorts of other techniques that the ukulele elitists love so much were imports from other types of instruments.
And of course where would we be without people learning percussive techniques. It ain't a drum, but someone who thought outside the box figured out how to make it sound like one just enough to add a whole new level of sound to the ukulele.
Personally, I'm in the "I don't get it." camp. But I know that I don't "get it". Apparently some folks do "get it" though, and if they can make music that they enjoy then that's great. If they can "get it" well enough to make music I enjoy, so much the better.
Who knows, maybe if I'm lucky someones experiments might help me "get it" enough to discover some wild, weird, wonderful way to play.
kypfer
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I'd hung back replying to this thread as I only found it after it had appeared to have degenerated into a bit of a mud-slinginging session. That all seems behind us now, so I'll post my tuppence-worth
I've had a set of Aquila 5th's on a soprano ukulele for some months and am thoroughly enjoying the experience. As a trainee-wannabe mandolin player it gives me an instrument to practice my fingerings on without the volume of my mandolin (who wants to hear mistakes repeated loudly ?)
I'll disagree with many other posters in that I still feel it "sounds like" a ukulele, but a ukulele that is being played as a melody instrument. This being a characteristic of the small wooden body and "nylon" strings. The bonuses are the much wider range of notes available, there's over two octaves available in the first position, and the wide range of sheet music and tabs that were originally designed for mandolin or fiddle
I'll not promote a ukulele tuned in fifths as a strumming instrument, perfectly possible but that's certainly not the "ukulele sound", nor for finger-picking, bluegrass or playing with a bow!! ... as a melody instrument, it's great!
I've had a set of Aquila 5th's on a soprano ukulele for some months and am thoroughly enjoying the experience. As a trainee-wannabe mandolin player it gives me an instrument to practice my fingerings on without the volume of my mandolin (who wants to hear mistakes repeated loudly ?)
I'll disagree with many other posters in that I still feel it "sounds like" a ukulele, but a ukulele that is being played as a melody instrument. This being a characteristic of the small wooden body and "nylon" strings. The bonuses are the much wider range of notes available, there's over two octaves available in the first position, and the wide range of sheet music and tabs that were originally designed for mandolin or fiddle
I'll not promote a ukulele tuned in fifths as a strumming instrument, perfectly possible but that's certainly not the "ukulele sound", nor for finger-picking, bluegrass or playing with a bow!! ... as a melody instrument, it's great!
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SteveZ
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Ironically, depending which GDAE one chooses, the sound is indeed different.
Right now I have two sopranos (Flea and Mele) using standard GCEA strings, but the C tuned to D and the E and A interchanged on the instrument. So, the "sound" hasn't really changed that much (C to D on one string), but the chord-fingering (for me, anyway) is a lot more hand-friendly and takes advantage of what I do on three other instruments.
I also have two concerts (Loprinzi and Mitchell) set up the same as above, but with a wound low-G - somewhat different sound with the low G and the C-to D and again the fingering advantage.
My RISA Solid Soprano is tuned GDAE with low-G and high-E similar to mandolin, and tenor guitar and tenor banjo when tuned "Irish." The RISA is this way to act as a suitcase-capable travel mandolin/TG/TB. The sound is definitely different than the other ukuleles and much more m/TG/TB.
I've tried the Aquila soprano and concert 5ths strings as designed and differently. For true 5ths tuning and sound, to me they are okay, but not great. On the soprano set, the E is so thin that snapping during tuning is 50-50, leading me to have to use 0.018" monofilament fishing line as the E (very strong, sounds pretty good) instead. On the concert set, the CGDA just sounds "off" to me, leading me to ditch the C, move the G-D-A strings over and add the 0.018" alternative E. This has caused me to prefer the modified GCEA string use earlier mentioned, with a wound low-G on the concerts.
So, it's GDAE, but it is and isn't at the same time. It all depends how you want to view it.
Right now I have two sopranos (Flea and Mele) using standard GCEA strings, but the C tuned to D and the E and A interchanged on the instrument. So, the "sound" hasn't really changed that much (C to D on one string), but the chord-fingering (for me, anyway) is a lot more hand-friendly and takes advantage of what I do on three other instruments.
I also have two concerts (Loprinzi and Mitchell) set up the same as above, but with a wound low-G - somewhat different sound with the low G and the C-to D and again the fingering advantage.
My RISA Solid Soprano is tuned GDAE with low-G and high-E similar to mandolin, and tenor guitar and tenor banjo when tuned "Irish." The RISA is this way to act as a suitcase-capable travel mandolin/TG/TB. The sound is definitely different than the other ukuleles and much more m/TG/TB.
I've tried the Aquila soprano and concert 5ths strings as designed and differently. For true 5ths tuning and sound, to me they are okay, but not great. On the soprano set, the E is so thin that snapping during tuning is 50-50, leading me to have to use 0.018" monofilament fishing line as the E (very strong, sounds pretty good) instead. On the concert set, the CGDA just sounds "off" to me, leading me to ditch the C, move the G-D-A strings over and add the 0.018" alternative E. This has caused me to prefer the modified GCEA string use earlier mentioned, with a wound low-G on the concerts.
So, it's GDAE, but it is and isn't at the same time. It all depends how you want to view it.
iamesperambient
Well-known member
I'd hung back replying to this thread as I only found it after it had appeared to have degenerated into a bit of a mud-slinginging session. That all seems behind us now, so I'll post my tuppence-worth
I've had a set of Aquila 5th's on a soprano ukulele for some months and am thoroughly enjoying the experience. As a trainee-wannabe mandolin player it gives me an instrument to practice my fingerings on without the volume of my mandolin (who wants to hear mistakes repeated loudly ?)
I'll disagree with many other posters in that I still feel it "sounds like" a ukulele, but a ukulele that is being played as a melody instrument. This being a characteristic of the small wooden body and "nylon" strings. The bonuses are the much wider range of notes available, there's over two octaves available in the first position, and the wide range of sheet music and tabs that were originally designed for mandolin or fiddle
I'll not promote a ukulele tuned in fifths as a strumming instrument, perfectly possible but that's certainly not the "ukulele sound", nor for finger-picking, bluegrass or playing with a bow!! ... as a melody instrument, it's great!
I feel like a 5th's tuning maybe be nice on a baritone uke, just because of its size and resonance i feel
the baritone is the best uke for trying different tunings. Do they make 5th sets for baritone?
if i could get kind of an 'octave mandolin' sound out of my baritone i may try it just to get
comfortable with the sound and feel to see if i'd like to actually get an actual octave mandolin.
I do like how larger mandolin family instruments sound but standard smaller mandolin i'm not a big
fan of the sound.
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SteveZ
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The last time you waded into this thread with nothing but a negative opinion, the thread deteriorated. The thread started by looking for folk who do GDAE so experiences could be shared. Having folk ask questions about the topic is a normal expectation. It's called information-sharing.
We get it. You don't like it. Now that the world has been told a couple of times in this thread what your opinion regarding GDAE and 5ths is, how about the courtesy of letting folk share and enjoy without "your opinion" why you don't approve?
kypfer
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The closest I've got to a baritone ukulele is a 1/4-size guitar, with a 19" scale. Just out of interest, I'd re-grooved the nut to take four strings and shuffled the existing nylon (guitar) strings around to give me a GDAE tuning an octave below my mandolin/soprano ukulele. It works, the instrument sounds just like it always did (when used for melody), but with the advantages of having just 4 strings to contend with. The chords sound "different" to a normal guitar, inevitably
So, in answer to your question, you'll probably be able to use a set of standard nylon guitar strings if you can't find a set of "5th's" specifically for a baritone ukulele.
iamesperambient
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actually i just said i would like to try it on my baritone and was wondering if they made baritone 5th's tuning strings...wasn't doing anything other than that.
iamesperambient
Well-known member
The closest I've got to a baritone ukulele is a 1/4-size guitar, with a 19" scale. Just out of interest, I'd re-grooved the nut to take four strings and shuffled the existing nylon (guitar) strings around to give me a GDAE tuning an octave below my mandolin/soprano ukulele. It works, the instrument sounds just like it always did (when used for melody), but with the advantages of having just 4 strings to contend with. The chords sound "different" to a normal guitar, inevitably
So, in answer to your question, you'll probably be able to use a set of standard nylon guitar strings if you can't find a set of "5th's" specifically for a baritone ukulele.
thank you for the answer maybe even south coast make's a set for this.
I'm considering getting an an octave mandolin or tenor guitar in the future
(this fall) and i'd like to prepare for the tuning and figured i could learn it better
by trying on my baritone. I did it on my electric baritone but it doesn't feel right
being its not acoustic.
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SteveZ
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Then let's leave it at that....
A baritone's scale is 19" while tenor guitar is 21-23", depending on short/standard scale. GDAE String sets for baritone uke have been tried by tenor guitarists and the link below is to a thread on a tenor guitar forum where this "problem" and a solution has come up. It's been a matter of experimentation to have an even shorter-scale tenor guitar-like instrument and sound using a baritone ukulele as the test platform. Bottom line is it has been done, and relatively successfully.
http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/s...aritone-uke-to-Tenor-Octave-mando-GDAE-tuning
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