GDAE tuning?

SteveZ said:

Then let's leave it at that....

A baritone's scale is 19" while tenor guitar is 21-23", depending on short/standard scale. GDAE String sets for baritone uke have been tried by tenor guitarists and the link below is to a thread on a tenor guitar forum where this "problem" and a solution has come up. It's been a matter of experimentation to have an even shorter-scale tenor guitar-like instrument and sound using a baritone ukulele as the test platform. Bottom line is it has been done, and relatively successfully.

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/s...aritone-uke-to-Tenor-Octave-mando-GDAE-tuning

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I think pono makes baritones 21+ inches.
My electric baritone is 22" so i'm able to use tenor guitar/octave mandolin tuning on it but i don't really like how it sounds on an electric format. I'll read up and see if its possible thanks!

iamesperambient said:

I think pono makes baritones 21+ inches.
My electric baritone is 22" so i'm able to use tenor guitar/octave mandolin tuning on it but i don't really like how it sounds on an electric format. I'll read up and see if its possible thanks!

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Took this from Elderly's advertisement on the Konoblaster:

Blueburst with East Indian rosewood fretboard. Has a 22" scale length, strung 011 014 021w 036w, 1 3/8" nut, 18 frets, with an adjustable truss rod. The neck is maple, body solid poplar, swirly phenolic top, carpeted back and sides, with an adjustable bridge and a humbucker with volume control. Tenor guitar would be tuned CGDA, probably using the same gauges. Octave mandolin would be tuned GDAE and restrung to 011 021 036w 046w or thereabouts.

Correct me if I'm wrong, please. The Konablaster has nylon strings @ DGBE. I've done 22.9" tenor guitars @ GDAE with nylon (classical guitar string) and was not satisfied - sounded a bit weak. Electrifying weak just has louder weak, if that makes any sense. Have not tried CGDA with nylon strings on tenor guitar yet. While classical guitars (usually playing solo) can get away with nylon, tenor guitars (and banjos) need the oomph from steel strings to compete (err...complement) dreadnaughts, electrics, 5-string banjos and mandolins.

Elderly's description regarding tenor guitar @ 5ths with the same string gauges makes me think of steel, not nylon strings. That's definitely the case for octave mandolin, as no mandolin runs on nylon. No matter how one cuts it, the sound from steel and nylon is T H A T different.

In the mandolin world there's been a fair amount of experimentation tuning ukuleles GDAE/CGDA as a matter of travel convenience. Mandolins are meant to be pick-driven, not finger-strummed in any fashion, and thus are notoriously loud (tough to play in hotel rooms). That being the situation, combined with size and cost, 5ths tuned ukuleles as travel-substitutes for mandolins has been tried for many years. That experimentation is what got me (and many others) into ukuleles, especially the smaller sizes.

If you try to "5ths" the Konoblaster, CGDA may be a better fit sound-wise and comfort-wise than GDAE. GDAE at that scale is considered "Irish" tuning on tenor guitars/banjos and fits Irish Traditional Music, while CGDA is more jazz/rock oriented. Have run my tenor guitar/banjo both ways and the tuning/strings vary by the genre.

SteveZ said:

Took this from Elderly's advertisement on the Konoblaster:

Blueburst with East Indian rosewood fretboard. Has a 22" scale length, strung 011 014 021w 036w, 1 3/8" nut, 18 frets, with an adjustable truss rod. The neck is maple, body solid poplar, swirly phenolic top, carpeted back and sides, with an adjustable bridge and a humbucker with volume control. Tenor guitar would be tuned CGDA, probably using the same gauges. Octave mandolin would be tuned GDAE and restrung to 011 021 036w 046w or thereabouts.

Correct me if I'm wrong, please. The Konablaster has nylon strings @ DGBE. I've done 22.9" tenor guitars with nylon (classical guitar string) and was not satisfied - sounded a bit weak. Electrifying weak just has louder weak, if that makes any sense. While classical guitars (usually playing solo) can get away with nylon, tenor guitars (and banjos) need the oomph from steel strings to compete (err...complement) dreadnaughts, electrics, 5-string banjos and mandolins.

Elderly's description regarding tenor guitar @ 5ths with the same string gauges makes me think of steel, not nylon strings. That's definitely the case for octave mandolin, as no mandolin runs on nylon. No matter how one cuts it, the sound from steel and nylon is T H A T different.

In the mandoln world there's been a fair amount of experimentation tuning ukuleles GDAE/CGDA as a matter of travel convenience. Mandolins are meant to be pick-driven, not finger-strummed in any fashion, and thus are notoriously loud (tough to play in hotel rooms). That being the situation, combined with size and cost, 5ths tuned ukuleles as travel-substitutes for mandolins has been tried for many years. That experimentation is what got me (and many others) into ukuleles, especially the smaller sizes.

If you try to "5ths" the Konoblaster, CGDA may be a better fit sound-wise and comfort-wise than GDAE. GDAE at that scale is considered "Irish" tuning on tenor guitars/banjos and fits Irish Traditional Music, while CGDA is more jazz/rock oriented. Have run my tenor guitar/banjo both ways and the tuning/strings vary by the genre.

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No the konablaster is actually steel strings i use normal ernie ball guitar strings the D G B and high E from a normal set. I tried 5th's on my konablaster but didn't like how it translated through an amp. I think i really need to try it out acoustically to get a true resonance from the tuning. I ultimately want to get a tenor banjo and tenor guitar and play them in 5th's so this is really an attempt to get some practice before i buy one so i will kind of know what i'm doing a little bit than.

The baritone konablaster has an adustable trus rod, and humbucker pick up and steel strings, it actually sounds/feels/handles very much
like a fender strat, i think its a great instrument, but i think baritone uke tuning suits it the best.

iamesperambient said:

No the konablaster is actually steel strings i use normal ernie ball guitar strings the D G B and high E from a normal set. I tried 5th's on my konablaster but didn't like how it translated through an amp. I think i really need to try it out acoustically to get a true resonance from the tuning. I ultimately want to get a tenor banjo and tenor guitar and play them in 5th's so this is really an attempt to get some practice before i buy one so i will kind of know what i'm doing a little bit than.

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Don't know which type of 5ths tuning you tried. Again, would suggest going CGDA on the KB unless you plan to do a lot of Irish Traditional. The sound will be more attuned to DGBE-sensitive ears than the higher GDAE.

Did not know the KonaBlaster runs steel strings. That being the case, FYI D'Addario J66 tenor guitar strings (CGDA) may fit. Also, Elderly puts out a custom TG set @ GDAE based on what Breedlove uses on its tenor guitars. Both run tension numbers up to about 85#, and if the KB can take that strain, there are options.

SteveZ said:

Don't know which type of 5ths tuning you tried. Again, would suggest going CGDA on the KB unless you plan to do a lot of Irish Traditional. The sound will be more attuned to DGBE-sensitive ears than the higher GDAE.

Did not know the KonaBlaster runs steel strings. That being the case, FYI D'Addario J66 tenor guitar strings (CGDA) may fit. Also, Elderly puts out a custom TG set @ GDAE based on what Breedlove uses on its tenor guitars. Both run tension numbers up to about 85#, and if the KB can take that strain, there are options.

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i used CGDA. and its a solid body instrument. Blue star only makes solid body electric versions of folk instruments so it would be like putting acoustic strings on an electric guitar. The gauges are fine for the tuning i just don't care for it on the konablaster i want something thats full on acoustic. Maybe i will wait to see if i can find a cheap tenor guitar used somewhere.

iamesperambient said:

i used CGDA. and its a solid body instrument. Blue star only makes solid body electric versions of folk instruments so it would be like putting acoustic strings on an electric guitar. The gauges are fine for the tuning i just don't care for it on the konablaster i want something thats full on acoustic. Maybe i will wait to see if i can find a cheap tenor guitar used somewhere.

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I understand what you mean about acoustic strings on an electric. The folk at Emando.com were always good with me for "electric" strings and will mix/match any set the customer wants. They do a CGDAE for 5-string baritone (solid body) e-mandolin that should transfer.

Used tenor guitars seem to get gobbled up quickly. The one I have came via a trade for a mandolin.

CGDA does sound "fuller" on longer-scaled instruments, but the bluegrass and ITM folk really gravitate to that E5 ring. Am tempted to convert one mandolin to G3-D4-A4-E4 instead of E5 just to hear how it would sound with a deeper bark at the E.

SteveZ said:

I understand what you mean about acoustic strings on an electric. The folk at Emando.com were always good with me for "electric" strings and will mix/match any set the customer wants. They do a CGDAE for 5-string baritone (solid body) e-mandolin that should transfer.

Used tenor guitars seem to get gobbled up quickly. The one I have came via a trade for a mandolin.

CGDA does sound "fuller" on longer-scaled instruments, but the bluegrass and ITM folk really gravitate to that E5 ring. Am tempted to convert one mandolin to G3-D4-A4-E4 instead of E5 just to hear how it would sound with a deeper bark at the E.

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def. The konablaster really is designed to be an electric solid body baritone i dont find 5th's voice really good on this electric.
I think im going to save for a blue ridge tenor i really like the full bodied sound it gives off and the way it resonates acoustically.

iamesperambient said:

def. The konablaster really is designed to be an electric solid body baritone i dont find 5th's voice really good on this electric.
I think im going to save for a blue ridge tenor i really like the full bodied sound it gives off and the way it resonates acoustically.

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Good choice!

SteveZ said:

Good choice!

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their really nice too i like the big body it seems to give it a nice fuller sound.
At first i wanted a smaller tenor guitar because i wanted a more of an instrument
i could use as a 'steel string acoustic' baritone but now i just want to use the tenor
guitar exactly as it's intended in 5th's the tuning has so much more resonance than using
DGBE for this instrument by a long shot.

iamesperambient said:

their really nice too i like the big body it seems to give it a nice fuller sound.
At first i wanted a smaller tenor guitar because i wanted a more of an instrument
i could use as a 'steel string acoustic' baritone but now i just want to use the tenor
guitar exactly as it's intended in 5th's the tuning has so much more resonance than using
DGBE for this instrument by a long shot.

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I've put GDAE and CGDA back and forth on my BR-40T. Overall, prefer the CGDA for the mellowness.

iamesperambient said:

it actually sounds/feels/handles very much
like a fender strat

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I don't get how you can keep making this claim. The scale length is 3.5" shorter than a strat, which means the string tension will feel completely different, not to mention the sound. It has a humbucker, not single coil, so it won't sound anything like a strat, unless you're comparing it to a strat with a humbucker, which again sounds nothing like a strat. The neck width at the nut is 2/8" narrower than a strat, so the neck and string spacing will be nothing like a strat. It's shaped like a toilet seat, with no contouring whatsoever, so I can't see how it even remotely "handles" like a strat. The pickup is mounted almost at the bottom of the neck, which won't come close to giving the sort of tone that people associate with the "strat sound".

I can only assume you've never played a strat (and in case you were thinking of employing the "well I bet you haven't either" argument, I've owned half a dozen or more over the last 35 years, and played/setup hundreds more).

The Big Kahuna said:

I don't get how you can keep making this claim. The scale length is 3.5" shorter than a strat, which means the string tension will feel completely different, not to mention the sound. It has a humbucker, not single coil, so it won't sound anything like a strat, unless you're comparing it to a strat with a humbucker, which again sounds nothing like a strat. The neck width at the nut is 2/8" narrower than a strat, so the neck and string spacing will be nothing like a strat. It's shaped like a toilet seat, with no contouring whatsoever, so I can't see how it even remotely "handles" like a strat. The pickup is mounted almost at the bottom of the neck, which won't come close to giving the sort of tone that people associate with the "strat sound".

I can only assume you've never played a strat (and in case you were thinking of employing the "well I bet you haven't either" argument, I've owned half a dozen or more over the last 35 years, and played/setup hundreds more).

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My first guitar i got on my 16th birthday (im 32) was a vintage 70's fender strat(set up to my specs actually with humbuckers from the shop i got it from and repainted blue). I'm saying it has a nice twang of a fender strat. The neck is nice and solid like a fender. Also you haven't actually played the konablaster baritone (unless you have) i'm not sure how you can make these assumptions about it's sound until you play one. I'm not sure what kind of toilet seats you sat on but that would be quite an odd toilet seat( i guess a kamaka pinapple is a toilet seat too). We are having a friendly discussion about 5th's tuning I'm trying to just get some pointers on testing this out in the hope of obtaining a tenor guitar, this isn't a discussion about konablaster's and if you like them or not.

I never said I didn't like them, I've never played one, as you so accurately surmised. However, UU members use the opinions given on this forum to help with their purchasing decisions, and I would hate to think that someone would purchase what is probably the least "stratty" instrument on the face of the earth based on your description.

If you had, as you claim, a 70's strat with humbuckers, then someone must have carved the crap out of the body, because I've never seen a strat from that era with a body channeled for a humbucker (and really, applying the word "vintage" to a 70's strat is about as much of a stretch as you describing your konablaster as "luthier built").

The only reason any Strats can be described as having "a nice solid neck" is due to the piss-poor quality control in the CBS days.

Perhaps another thread needs to be originated on electrified instruments and their inherent differences. This thread has had one "history" already and deserves a chance to stay on track.

Back to the original topic:

Have not known anyone who has tried GDAE or any 5ths on a tenor ukulele. Have read a couple discussions about it, but no progress reports. any info/experiences would be appreciated.

In the spirit of the topic, if that tuning works for you, stick with it mate. After 37 years of guitar, I wouldn't have touched the uke with a bargepole if it hadn't been tuned to the same intervals. Don't get me wrong, I love open tunings on guitar, but I consider that "situational". I'd have to really want to learn an instrument badly to consider something whose "standard" tuning was totally out of whack with what I'm used to.

Of course, that's just me...now where did I put my diddley bow?

The Big Kahuna said:

In the spirit of the topic, if that tuning works for you, stick with it mate. After 37 years of guitar, I wouldn't have touched the uke with a bargepole if it hadn't been tuned to the same intervals. Don't get me wrong, I love open tunings on guitar, but I consider that "situational". I'd have to really want to learn an instrument badly to consider something whose "standard" tuning was totally out of whack with what I'm used to.

Of course, that's just me...now where did I put my diddley bow?

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That's what led me to GDAE on a uke. I play too many instruments with a 5ths chord pattern to not give it a shot on ukulele as well. A half-century of gnarled fingers trying to do six-string somewhat musical is what ked me to mandolin and then other instruments of like pattern....old dog, new tricks syndrome!

I'll take a middle position here.

I don't see why one would bother buying a ukulele and then turn it into a mandolin. On the other hand, it is a very fortunate fact that I don't make the rules for what other people do ;-)

So if it turns your crank, go for it!

The Big Kahuna said:

I never said I didn't like them, I've never played one, as you so accurately surmised. However, UU members use the opinions given on this forum to help with their purchasing decisions, and I would hate to think that someone would purchase what is probably the least "stratty" instrument on the face of the earth based on your description.

If you had, as you claim, a 70's strat with humbuckers, then someone must have carved the crap out of the body, because I've never seen a strat from that era with a body channeled for a humbucker (and really, applying the word "vintage" to a 70's strat is about as much of a stretch as you describing your konablaster as "luthier built").

The only reason any Strats can be described as having "a nice solid neck" is due to the piss-poor quality control in the CBS days.

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Bruce of blue star is very much a luthier
each instrument including mine is hand made
in his workshop I'm paw paw Michigan therefore
it is luthier built and not a factory made instrument
he also makes customs to order. mine has a nice
bluesy twang to it that's all I was trying to say
a nice solid built clear twangy sound good intonation
and nice solid neck. and just as good in my opinion
as the fenders I have played.
http://bluestarguitarcompany.com

as for trying these tunings I'm trying
to get into playing tenor guitar in 5ths
and I want instruments to practice and get
used to the sound before I buy one which will
be a few months.

allanr said:

I'll take a middle position here.

I don't see why one would bother buying a ukulele and then turn it into a mandolin. On the other hand, it is a very fortunate fact that I don't make the rules for what other people do ;-)

So if it turns your crank, go for it!

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That's the point. It's not turning a ukulele into a mandolin (or tenor guitar, or tenor banjo) at all. GDAE on a uke is high-G or low-G, C-to-D, A stays the same, E4 or E5 - whatever works. I've done all combinations and have my preferences by ukulele size. Playability-wise, no ukulele will play like a mandolin or vice-versa. This isn't simply "5ths" as the options are greater than that.

For me, it's taking advantage of existing muscle memory across several instruments and adapting another into the mix. That just makes each instrument a "trainer" for the others with the end result being a bit better on all because of the left-hand redundacy and reinforcement.

SteveZ said:

That's the point. It's not turning a ukulele into a mandolin (or tenor guitar, or tenor banjo) at all. GDAE on a uke is high-G or low-G, C-to-D, A stays the same, E4 or E5 - whatever works. I've done all combinations and have my preferences by ukulele size. Playability-wise, no ukulele will play like a mandolin or vice-versa. This isn't simply "5ths" as the options are greater than that.

For me, it's taking advantage of existing muscle memory across several instruments and adapting another into the mix. That just makes each instrument a "trainer" for the others with the end result being a bit better on all because of the left-hand redundacy and reinforcement.

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that's exactly it for me a trainer
for tenor guitar so I will be decent
by the time I can purchase one