Song Help Request What is the difference in Old Time vs Blue Grass Songs?

quiltingshirley

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I saw a group listed called California Old Time Fiddlers. I know they have acoustic instruments like bass, guitar, banjos, fiddles, Ukes, etc. They said they play Old Time and Blue Grass songs, no popular stuff. I get that, but what is the difference between Old Time and Blue Grass music? I thought they were the same.
 
There a few hundred jokes in there but I'll behave myself.
Alot of the songs are the same. I think it's mostly in the way that the songs are played.

Bluegrass only one instrument plays a "Break" at a time in between vocals. Usually in old time many people play the melody every time around the song.
Usually you'll get frowned upon if you show up at a bluegrass jam with a uke or even a banjo uke. Not so at an old time jam.
Bluegrass banjo players usually play Scruggs three finger style. Old time banjo players usually play clawhammer or frailing style.
Here's a good place to hear and practice some old time songs.
http://www.oldtimejam.com/wordpress/
 
Thanks. Those Old Time Songs are what I thought were Blue Grass. Confusing to me. So I guess that makes Alabama's Mountain Music popular?
 
I like Bluegrass, but I think I'm more interested in this Old Time music. I remember, back when I was really into harmonica playing, the bluegrass groups weren't very accepting of harpists. I know they're funny about other things too. I suppose it's alright to try to keep one's music "pure" though. Anyway, groups playing together with whatever instruments they had is an American tradition, and I like it.
 
There's lots of music that I like but don't play like Bluegrass and Jazz and some others, but I really do like old timey folk music. I like to play it and old Country Western stuff too.
 
Old Time is the predecessor to Bluegrass. It's the Appalachian mountain music of the 1800s and early 20th century. Bluegrass came around in the 40s or 50s. You can almost think of it as the difference between modern rock and classic rock.

That's a good way to put it. Bluegrass and Old Time share a lot of the same songs, but I think of the real difference is that Bluegrass is a style of music. Old Time music is folks music that developed over a lot of years, but most of what we consider Bluegrass can be traced to Bill Monroe and his Bluegrass Boys. Bill Monroe didn't really invent Bluegrass, but he branded it better than anyone else did. Although the Bluegrass Boys had many different configurations, the core guitar-bass-fiddle-banjo-mandolin (and sometimes dobro) configuration is the one that stuck the best, and that's what most Bluegrass aficionados consider a bluegrass band. The style of specific players has become part of Bluegrass, too, from Monroe's percussive mandolin, to Earl Scrugg's distinctive 3-finger banjo rolls. Bluegrass is sometimes called "hillbilly jazz," which is an apt description-- it favors instrumental virtuosity and inspired improvisation.
 
I'm finding these answers quite interesting -- shows how little I know. I do think Old Time Music is more what I'm interested in. Do you consider Railroad Bill an Old Time Song? When I first decided to learn the ukulele, Railroad Bill was the first song I played at a Jam thanks to Eugene's video. It was easy and folks seemed to be able to play and sing along. (a requirement for songs that I do, though I do sometimes find myself doing a solo, poor choice of songs on my part)
 
quiltingshirley, (my wife's an avid quilter too) I think most of the tunes are the same in both groups. It's mostly the instrumentation, and the way they play their sets that are different. Bluegrass is more strictly formatted than Olde Timey Music. OTM is more off the cuff--more spontaneous I think. Again, I think I prefer OTM.
 
Having played "OldTime" and "String Band" music for the past 40 years, the two main differences I find in the music are 1) The lead instrument. In Old Time music, the fiddle more often takes the lead. In Bluegrass, you see a greater import of the banjo, and particularly the banjo style. Old_time banjo uses a style called "clawhammer" or "frailing", which a more rythmic sound, with the melody woven into the chording rythm. Blueegrass banjo uses a three-finger style that includes a great deal of extra (bear in mind I'm an Old-Time player) notes and seemingly a lot more flash. Bluegrass fiddlers often tend to have a cleaner, more modern sound, and for the Bluegrass mandolin style, see Bill Monroe. 2) Lyrically, the Old-Time Music is much closer to the Scotch-Irish-English music that the people who settled the Appalachain and adjoining mountains brought with them in the 18/19th centuries. String Band music was a further refinement (?) of this, and usually in a somewhat more irreverent manner. Check out such tunes as "Bald-Headed End of The Broom" and "Sales Tax on the Women". Bluegrass music evolved out of the Old Time/ String Band music, and became more sentimental in it's lyrical development, and moved increasingly towards the popular taste. Good Bluegrass is a treat. But check out "Gid Tanner and the Skillet Lickers" and "The New Lost City Ramblers". These groups are not as slick as Bill Monroe or Flatt and Scruggs, but they are every bit as much fun. Particularly if the straight-and-narrow seems a bit confining!
I have several "normal" banjos, and have recently discovered the banjo uke. My no-name soprano banjo-uke seems to bring out the raucous element within me. It's a bit of a compression to frail a banjo uke, but it's fun and kinda PO's some of the normal uke playeres, LOL! Onwards and sideways!
Don
S.S. Stewart banjo-uke
un-named banjo uke, 5" pot (most raucous!)
un-named banjo-uke 8" pot
multiple Mostrom ukuleles (my builds)
 
The difference in Old Time and Bluegrass songs is minute. As people write new songs for these genres a larger variance is creeping in but ignore that for now. Traditional Bluegrass is Oldtime. The approach to playing is different (except in Gospel songs). Stringband music is a subset of Old Time music but predates it. Old Time music dates to 1927 when radio and inexpensive record making technology enabled "country" music to spread over the airwaves. The radio stations made the money. In the 1940s Bill Monroe , Earl Scruggs, Don Reno, and others upped the ante by elevating "country" music to a more marketable and "professional" level in the hopes that the musicians would make the money. Bill Monroe coined the term Bluegrass and insisted on suits and ties and other more professional amenities. Old Time and Blue grass songs are still the same. Tight harmonies, virtuoso breaks were introduced for further polish. Resonator Banjos became popular at this time for volume, brilliance and to complement the independent but simultaneous introduction of Scruggs and Reno's three finger picking styles. Blue grass songs are now being written to highlight the tight vocals and instrumental breaks. In the 1960s the rules started to break down.

All Bluegrass songs are old time songs. Old Time songs embrace many more regional styles than bluegrass. Cajun, Texas Swing, Cowboy, Mariachi, novelty and popular songs "of the period" are all candidates for selecting your old time song repertoire. Old Time music also incorporate dance tunes but there is not of lot of singing involved. Old time singers are a much looser group as well. Neither group uses sheet music or song books much one for "professional" reasons the other for fun reasons, which include drinking which ain't professional. In old time music it is acceptable to break in with a verse or a chorus or a fragment of nonsense. One night we were jamming playing You get no bread with one meatball and a mandolin player who didn't know the song breaks in after the chorus line "One Meat Ball" with "and no spaghetti". After we finished laughing... Nowadays you hear "and no spaghetti". a lot. Bill Monroe would have shot poor Randy.

After the Concert is over and the jamming starts all Bluegrass singers revert to Old Time singers..
 
I've just been listening to some "Old Tyme Music" on YouTube, and I really enjoyed it. It seems more folksy, more natural. I like Bluegrass a lot, but it does seem more "professional", more structured. It's like a concert that one goes to see. Old Tyme music seems like a bunch of folks gettin' together to have a good time. One guy played a squeeze box, and another had a banjolele. I like that idea.

I also like that they play clawhammer banjo rather then three finger Scruggs. Well, it's just an opinion, but I'm sold on Old Tyme Music.

Git old timey. :eek:ld:
 
Ynot has summed it up perfectly for me.
Having played "OldTime" and "String Band" music for the past 40 years, the two main differences I find in the music are 1) The lead instrument. In Old Time music, the fiddle more often takes the lead. In Bluegrass, you see a greater import of the banjo, and particularly the banjo style. Old_time banjo uses a style called "clawhammer" or "frailing", which a more rythmic sound, with the melody woven into the chording rythm. Blueegrass banjo uses a three-finger style that includes a great deal of extra (bear in mind I'm an Old-Time player) notes and seemingly a lot more flash. Bluegrass fiddlers often tend to have a cleaner, more modern sound, and for the Bluegrass mandolin style, see Bill Monroe. 2) Lyrically, the Old-Time Music is much closer to the Scotch-Irish-English music that the people who settled the Appalachain and adjoining mountains brought with them in the 18/19th centuries. String Band music was a further refinement (?) of this, and usually in a somewhat more irreverent manner. Check out such tunes as "Bald-Headed End of The Broom" and "Sales Tax on the Women". Bluegrass music evolved out of the Old Time/ String Band music, and became more sentimental in it's lyrical development, and moved increasingly towards the popular taste. Good Bluegrass is a treat. But check out "Gid Tanner and the Skillet Lickers" and "The New Lost City Ramblers". These groups are not as slick as Bill Monroe or Flatt and Scruggs, but they are every bit as much fun. Particularly if the straight-and-narrow seems a bit confining!
I have several "normal" banjos, and have recently discovered the banjo uke. My no-name soprano banjo-uke seems to bring out the raucous element within me. It's a bit of a compression to frail a banjo uke, but it's fun and kinda PO's some of the normal uke playeres, LOL! Onwards and sideways!
Don
S.S. Stewart banjo-uke
un-named banjo uke, 5" pot (most raucous!)
un-named banjo-uke 8" pot
multiple Mostrom ukuleles (my builds)
 
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