12 frets to the body

[Island Jim]

I wonder about the difference between 12 and 14 frets to the body on a tenor uke. It seems 12 frets would move the bridge to a sweeter spot on the lower bout. Have any of you built a similar tenor with each placement and was there a difference in tone. I realize the bracing would have to be moved lower. I noticed Allen from Barron River makes most of his tenors with 12 frets to the body, that tells me it is not a bad idea!

 

[Timbuck]

I don't think it works like that ...if you want 14 frets to the body ..depends on body length scale length and some calculations are also needed.

 

[EDW]

It seems 12 frets would move the bridge to a sweeter spot on the lower bout.

Years ago I remember Dave Means of Glyph ukulele said that he preferred 12 for exactly that reason.....and he made an amazing tenor

 

[TerryM]

Years ago I remember Dave Means of Glyph ukulele said that he preferred 12 for exactly that reason.....and he made an amazing tenor

Also Hive Hornets and Pepe Romero tenors.

 

[oldjazznut]

Most cases except for soprano are sized for 14 to the body. I like the extra two frets open. You really don't play those, but you get extra room for 11 and 12. Bridge placement is dictated by scale length. Sometimes it's close to centered on the rear bout, sometimes not. Top belly could be more likely centered, but that would depend on the top bracing. Too many variables to say 12 or 14 is better.

 

[Canada Jim]

Strangely, I have a Johnson concert reso with a 13 fret neck.

 

[Ukecaster]

I've had a couple of 12 fret tenors, and they were very sweet sounding. Not sure why, but I thought the bridge placement in the lower sweet spot may be the reason. On occasion, I missed the extra 2 frets to the body on some songs, but a 12 fret tenor with cutaway would solve that problem. Most recently, I saw an all solid Cordoba 12 fret cutaway tenor which piqued my interest.

Cordoba 35T-CE S Tenor Ukulele https://reverb.com/item/71012043?ut...are&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=71012043

 

[Island Jim]

These replies and the similar threads are all very helpful. I'm going to experiment with a top I just cut out and a tenor fingerboard and bridge, moving them around and seeing what it looks like. My latest lattice bracing does not have a bridge plate so I think I could easily shift it down. Thanks for the replies!

 

[anthonyg]

12 fret to the body, is the historic design, including on full size guitars, and it does place the saddle in the sweet spot of the body.
14 frets to body was initially a compromise for better fret access, that has over time become the new standard.

 

[Timbuck]

First find the sweet spot ...then the number of frets required (17 ?) then find a scale length (by trial and error) that sits the 14th fret where the body joins...Then you have to make a neck to suit.
Thats the way I'd do it.

 

[DuckyI]

IME, less important than where the neck meets the body (or bridge placement) is where your hand strums or plucks the strings. Consider the user before looking at the engineering...

 

[hoji]

Design the body based on the intended scale length and desired body-joint fret, so that the bridge is landing in the ideal spot.

That is one approch, which I like, to get a cohesive design and arrive at an optimal body size and shape.

 

[anthonyg]

First find the sweet spot ...then the number of frets required (17 ?) then find a scale length (by trial and error) that sits the 14th fret where the body joins...Then you have to make a neck to suit.
Thats the way I'd do it.

Funny you should mention this.
What you are describing is basically a "long neck" or "super" instrument, as in a long neck Soprano or a long neck Concert.
So, a Soprano body with a Concert neck or a Concert body with a Tenor neck.
Such instrument certainly do have a sound to them.

 

[UkingViking]

Not a luthier by any means, but I find this interesting.

I have usually wondered about optimal frets to the body on concert ukes, since I mostly play concert scale, and the number of frets vary the most on this size.
Tenors usually have 14, sopranos 12, and concerts come with 12, 13 and 14 frets all relatively common.

It becomes interesting when you look at ukes from a company that makes both 12 and 14 fret ukuleles.

Kiwaya has a model that comes both ways. Somehow the must have balanced it so the saddle placement looks ok with both 12 and 14 frets. (The KTC 1 and KTC 2, which are otherwise the same)
If you look at Mya Moes gallery, it looks to me like the 14 fret version has the bridge very close to the sound hole - which might sound fine, but it looks a bit off.

Perhaps a 12 fret build will allow you to make a bigger body, and still hit the sweet spot on the lower bout?

 

[Island Jim]

I fiddled around placing a bridge in different locations on my body plan. I tried 14, 13 and 12 frets to the body using the same 17" scale, this picture is the bridge location using 12 frets to the body. It looks good to me, the saddle lines up with the wide part of the bridge, strumming over the sound hole is closer to the middle of the strings, what's not to like besides access to the upper frets! My lattice bracing can be adjusted down easily. I'm also going to make the squares on the lattice a little smaller and thinner!

 

[John Colter]

The bridge position looks good. FWIW, as shown, the lattice does look over braced to me.

 

[Island Jim]

I agree about the bracing, it is scalloped which is not obvious on the picture but I am also going to lighten it up .

 

[ProfChris]

I find that building with the bridge at the centre of the lower bout (the sweet spot) gives a fuller sound than other bridge positions. By that, I mean stronger mid and bass frequencies. Ukes are strong on high frequencies by their nature, so enhancing the lower frequencies is something I aim for.

A 14 fret neck join with a standard scale length means one of:

1. Use a 'standard' (ie Martin) body shape but move the bridge forward - loses some mids and low frequencies.

2. Modify the shape (flatten the upper bout as in a dreadnaught and widen lower down to keep the same body volume) - this works if you can find a nice shape, maybe something like a Ditson.

3. Reduce the size of the body to keep the shape you like but put the bridge in the sweet spot - the uke will likely be a little quieter and lose some bass frequencies. However, you might compensate for that by deepening the body a little, and also by arching the back quite aggressively (I find this enhances the mids on my own builds).

I'm with Ken Timms on this - put the bridge in the best place and then design everything else around that.

 

[Timbuck]

I find that building with the bridge at the centre of the lower bout (the sweet spot) gives a fuller sound than other bridge positions. By that, I mean stronger mid and bass frequencies. Ukes are strong on high frequencies by their nature, so enhancing the lower frequencies is something I aim for.

A 14 fret neck join with a standard scale length means one of:

1. Use a 'standard' (ie Martin) body shape but move the bridge forward - loses some mids and low frequencies.

2. Modify the shape (flatten the upper bout as in a dreadnaught and widen lower down to keep the same body volume) - this works if you can find a nice shape, maybe something like a Ditson.

3. Reduce the size of the body to keep the shape you like but put the bridge in the sweet spot - the uke will likely be a little quieter and lose some bass frequencies. However, you might compensate for that by deepening the body a little, and also by arching the back quite aggressively (I find this enhances the mids on my own builds).

I'm with Ken Timms on this - put the bridge in the best place and then design everything else around that.

Strangely enough ...Chris you have just described a soprano design that I am working on with my Son Mike that we hope will be available in a few months time... it's going to involve CNC and a more modern approach to the build...we hope it will be an instrument with the same playability and sound of the Martin.

 

[Pete Howlett]

I've abandoned all of this stuff - an experience with an odd turn of the century Larson blew away all of the above tropes. I don't think that with the ukulele these subtleties apply. I have found that building a spherical front very lightly is the only thing that really matters to me. I recognize that others may have an entirely different view. We all intersect with each other which is a good thing and I am personally grateful for the scientific approach of others I just cannot get to.