Ebikes

[Arcy]

Patty's articles aren't about legal ebikes from reputable brands, and they aren't clear about the difference.

The first talks about bikes modified beyond legal limits or sold as off-road motorcycles (which are significantly less regulated than street cycles).

The second is about the low quality battery issues covered already in this thread. Reputable ebike manufacturers use batteries with charging circuitry that prevents them from overloading.

In the US (federally and in most states that have ebike laws) there are 3 classes of legal ebikes. Class 1 ebikes are pedal only, and assist up to 20mph. Class 2 ebikes are pedal and throttle, with power up to 20mph. Class 3 ebikes are pedal assist only with the cutoff at 28mph.

Anything that assists or throttles faster is a moped or motorcycle, can't legally be ridden on bike paths, and needs to be licensed, registered, and insured to ride on streets (though most such don't meet the safety requirements to be registered)

Typically (but very jurisdiction dependant), class 1 and 2 ebikes can be ridden anywhere an acoustic bike can be ridden. Class 3 is restricted to streets and bike lanes, not trails or paths.

Often you can get away with an illegal bike if you don't call attention to it (don't ride like a jerk and don't get into a serious crash).

Some jurisdictions are hard core about enforcing these laws and will impound illegal ebikes. Some, like the calls in the first article to ban "ebikes", conflate the two and seek limitations on legit behavior because of the jerks.

The lycra crowd often blows past me on my class-1 ebike. They regularly pedal faster than my 20mph assisted limit on flats. I can pass most of them on hills.

It's not a problem when everybody's friendly on appropriate roads and paths.
It's an issue on the speed limited multi-use trails, but not one caused by electric power.

 

[Stoneyrun]

In the US (federally and in most states that have ebike laws) there are 3 classes of legal ebikes. Class 1 ebikes are pedal only, and assist up to 20mph. Class 2 ebikes are pedal and throttle, with power up to 20mph. Class 3 ebikes are pedal assist only with the cutoff at 28mph.

There's also ebikes that are labeled as class 2 but are "unlockable" very easily making them effectively a class 3(28mph) ebike with a class 2 sticker. I frequently had my Lectric XP 1.0 running at 31 mph. I also rode exclusively in mountainous terrain. Couple pics: One with a Vescom hard case storage and saddlebags, and one with an Aosom cargo trailer hauling a full karaoke system, my Donner tenor uke, and my billiards cue stick. People often think they'll only want to go 18mph or so. You're gonna want more torque.

 

[Arcy]

There's also ebikes that are labeled as class 2 but are "unlockable" very easily making them effectively a class 3(28mph) ebike with a class 2 sticker. I frequently had my Lectric XP 1.0 running at 31 mph. I also rode exclusively in mountainous terrain.

Once modified to lose the limits it's not legally an ebike. You can usually get away with it if you don't ride it like a jerk. A stealth mod ridden within legal limits when near others is unlikely to draw attention.

31mph on a throttle is well into moped territory: Class 3 is limited to 28mph pedal assist and no throttle. E-bikes on a throttle are limited to 20mph.

If you ride safely at high speeds in uncrowded areas, more power to you (pun intended). If you ride like a jerk and poison the well for legit e-bikers I hope you get caught and impounded.

 

[Stoneyrun]

Etiquette, common sense, and manners apply to all things when responsible people are concerned. That extra speed can mean the difference of making it up that last hill home before the battery dies, or pushing your ebike. Or, getting past that protective large dog speeding at you. Ebike theft is a huge problem these days. They are much lighter than a moped and can be stolen in the blink of an eye. GPS trackers can help. I made a theft prevention sticker in zazzle but never actually used it.

 

[Stoneyrun]

Once modified to lose the limits it's not legally an ebike. You can usually get away with it if you don't ride it like a jerk. A stealth mod ridden within legal limits when near others is unlikely to draw attention.

31mph on a throttle is well into moped territory: Class 3 is limited to 28mph pedal assist and no throttle. E-bikes on a throttle are limited to 20mph.

If you ride safely at high speeds in uncrowded areas, more power to you (pun intended). If you ride like a jerk and poison the well for legit e-bikers I hope you get caught and impounded.

I could only hit 31mph pedaling my behind off going downhill. Top speed on level terrain with throttle only was about 25mph.

 

[Nickie]

I've considered a Cat trike for years. I'm not shopping though. When I can't drive a car anymore, I plan to sell mine (Toyota Prius) and purchase an electric recumbent trike. I already have a Frogg Toggs rainsuit.
I've enjoyed these enlightening posts!

 

[Bibs]

There are upright and recumbent E-trikes also, but the recumbent trikes are pretty expensive.

 

[Nickie]

There are upright and recumbent E-trikes also, but the recumbent trikes are pretty expensive.

Yep, sure are! I will have to spend upwards of $4 grand, I suppose. I can't sit upright on a bike/trike anymore.

 

[merlin666]

I had no awareness that ebikes are already such a big thing. I live in flat area and have an almost 30 year old mountain bike with steel frame that is very light and can easily be carried up the stairs or over an obstacle. I don't ride to get to places but to move my legs and be out there, so not really an E bike candidate. Though I can appreciate the benefit of motor assistance for elderly people going up hills or hauling loads. But in practice all I see is kids speeding on shared paths without even using the pedals and being hazardous to pedestrians. I think some restrictions and licensing would be beneficial at least in our area.

 

[Arcy]

I could only hit 31mph pedaling my behind off going downhill. Top speed on level terrain with throttle only was about 25mph.

You didn't find the right hills

This one (unofficial name: "oh s** oh f** I'm going to die I'm going to die In going to die hill") surprised me when I was trying to figure out a new commute route a few years ago. I didn't realize the hill was going to drop out until it was too late to safely go hard on the brakes. No effective pedalling at this point. No power assist. Just gravity. By far the most terrified I've been on a bicycle.

 

[Arcy]

I don't ride to get to places but to move my legs and be out there, so not really an E bike candidate.

Conversely, this is exactly why I have an ebike. It let's me ride to do errands and get to work, which I can't effectively do on the acoustic bike. All pedaling, and I get a better workout because I can spin up hills and keep my heart rate up instead of grinding or stopping.

I'm fortunate to have lockers and showers at work.

But in practice all I see is kids speeding on shared paths without even using the pedals and being hazardous to pedestrians.

This is probably already illegal. Enforce existing laws against bad behavior. Don't add unnecessary regulations to people following the rules and not causing trouble.

 

[Doug W]

Thanks for all the great information everyone. Maybe we will be able to try a couple of them out this weekend.

 

[merlin666]

You didn't find the right hills

This one (unofficial name: "oh s** oh f** I'm going to die I'm going to die In going to die hill") surprised me when I was trying to figure out a new commute route a few years ago. I didn't realize the hill was going to drop out until it was too late to safely go hard on the brakes. No effective pedalling at this point. No power assist. Just gravity. By far the most terrified I've been on a bicycle.
View attachment 149515

Are ebikes not like hybrid cars and charge battery when going downhill?

 

[Arcy]

Are ebikes not like hybrid cars and charge battery when going downhill?

It depends on the bike and the specific technology used. Direct drive hub motors can usually charge the battery. Geared mid-drive motors can't.

Using the hub as a brake was occasionally useful when I had one, but the power recovery was trivial. I'll gladly take the mid-drive torque on my current bike.

 

[Stoneyrun]

Drone style vehicles are the next big thing on the horizon. People will soon be flying around like a jetsons cartoon.

 

[Neil_O]

Be careful, all of you.

Collisions and close calls: The e-bike boom is creating a push for stricter cycling rules

The rise of electric bicycles is sparking criticism of their potential danger to pedestrians and traditional cyclists.

fortune.com

E-Bikes Are Convenient. They Can Also Cause Fatal Fires.

Three years after New York legalized micro-mobility bikes and scooters, lawmakers and building managers are grappling with how to make them safer in the wake of numerous fires, some fatal.

www.nytimes.com

If only the motor vehicle lobby hadn't won all those years back it would be safer for cycling and pedestrians! 50 years in and I still have never owned a car.

 

[Neil_O]

I had no awareness that ebikes are already such a big thing. I live in flat area and have an almost 30 year old mountain bike with steel frame that is very light and can easily be carried up the stairs or over an obstacle. I don't ride to get to places but to move my legs and be out there, so not really an E bike candidate. Though I can appreciate the benefit of motor assistance for elderly people going up hills or hauling loads. But in practice all I see is kids speeding on shared paths without even using the pedals and being hazardous to pedestrians. I think some restrictions and licensing would be beneficial at least in our area.

I would support more restrictions on cars, to keep them at 25 mph or slower in the city limits.

 

[LorenFL]

I've considered a Cat trike for years. I'm not shopping though.

I bought a lightweight "low racer" style recumbent bike, and it's great... but, it's more built for straight line speed than cornering. It gets around okay, but I've never been a "motorcycle guy", so I get nervous in fast curves with two wheels. I've been thinking hard about a trike. My creative side wants to build one!

Being a "sports car guy", I want one that will take a corner as fast as I'm dumb enough to ride it. That means, REALLY low center of mass and engineered to handle cornering forces. But, I also want it to be comfortable, lightweight... and cheap. I don't ask for much, right?

It's on my agenda. Somewhere after "finish reorganizing the garage" and "build a drip irrigation system for my wife's garden". I want to at least hack together some kind of ridable e-trike, even if it's not the "ultimate".

 

[TBB]

In the UK e-bikes have to be pedal-powered, no throttles allowed. I have a very basic one that I use primarily to commute, Bath’s built in the crater of an extinct volcano and you can’t really get anywhere without encountering a pretty steep hill so there’s no way I’d be cycling back from work without the assistance of my e-bike.

I love it, there’s an old railway track that’s been turned into a linear park which takes me to work practically door to door, so I don’t even have to contend with traffic. My bike also folds, for the evenings when I can’t face even the assisted cycle home, my husband picks me up and we just stick the bike in the boot. (I say “just stick the bike in the boot” but it actually weighs a ton and has a habit of folding itself up onto your fingers, so it’s more like wrestling a furious torture device into the boot.)

 

[anthonyg]

Thanks for all the great information everyone. Maybe we will be able to try a couple of them out this weekend.

Based on your previously stated requirements, a basic 250 watt, hub drive , pedal assist e-bike, will meet your requirements.

EDIT: I used to own a 350 watt hub drive e-bike, and it was capable of getting along at 20mph in pedal assist mode.
Centre drive is nice, but if you aren't climbing big hills, its not required. My hub drive bike used to get up hills just fine, yet if its a matter of climbing hills for extended periods of time, a centre drive is definitely better.