Pickups and live sound

[Ukeadelic]

Hi all,

I am asking this question to the serious ukulele live performers. I am a ukulele collector and have done a fair few open mic performances in the past.
My best live goto uke is a KanileaTenor KSR with an L R BAGGS pickup.
I'm more comfortable with quicker songs tho playing on a concert sized uke.
I put a cheaper K&K pickup in a Maton concert uke and played it live today for the first time. The Maton sounds great unplugged but its a bit tinny sounding live due to the pickup and perhaps my placement of it (hard to get your fingers to the exact spot via the soundhole).
I have a cheap chinese laminate uke which I love playing at home and I want to put a pickup in it for live playing so I will probably go with another L R Baggs 5 0.
My question is....Does the construction material for a uke come into consideration much when playing live with a pickup or is the pickup doing 90% of the work.
I tend to think the latter based on my assessment but wondering what other SERIOUS players think.
This is the uke in question which I am wanting to put the good pickup in.
I also realise strings make a big difference. My gotos are various (Living Waters, Worth, and (Freemont for Low G) and Martin fluorocarbons on Martins).
This uke came with D'addario titanium which also sound ok. I have gone off the Aquilas as they are too bright IMHO. However, they do make dirt cheap ukes sound much better.

 

[rhiggie]

Congrats on getting out there with your uke! I've been playing ukulele in an all uke band for about 8 years, and I'm the sound guy for the band. I play several different ukes throughout the night including a banjolele. Most are high end ukes but I do play a double neck Ortega HYDRA-ZS just for the showboat value. Obviously a good uke and a good pickup will produce a better sound but with EQ and a decent amp/PA you can get most any uke sounding decent enough. After all, it's a uke not a classical guitar. The important thing is playing a uke that you like playing! Have fun.

 

[Ukeadelic]

Congrats on getting out there with your uke! I've been playing ukulele in an all uke band for about 8 years, and I'm the sound guy for the band. I play several different ukes throughout the night including a banjolele. Most are high end ukes but I do play a double neck Ortega HYDRA-ZS just for the showboat value. Obviously a good uke and a good pickup will produce a better sound but with EQ and a decent amp/PA you can get most any uke sounding decent enough. After all, it's a uke not a classical guitar. The important thing is playing a uke that you like playing! Have fun.

Thanks..it means a lot when the sound guy sort of confirms my opinion..To me today the Maton sounded tinny through the PA but the sound guy reckoned it sounded good out the front. I hated my singing but he also thought it was good so i guess everything is subjective and without foldback the sound on stage is a lot different to whats out front???.
Im thinking about a double neck also but Im wanting an acoustic electric on one and steel string on other or a Ubass/acoustic electric combo (I think i will have to get a luthier friend to make them tho as I havnt seen any). I think with a loop pedal I could learn to add a lot more depth to my live performances. I also have an unused Beat Buddy i need to open and learn to use.

 

[Ukeadelic]

Congrats on getting out there with your uke! I've been playing ukulele in an all uke band for about 8 years, and I'm the sound guy for the band. I play several different ukes throughout the night including a banjolele. Most are high end ukes but I do play a double neck Ortega HYDRA-ZS just for the showboat value. Obviously a good uke and a good pickup will produce a better sound but with EQ and a decent amp/PA you can get most any uke sounding decent enough. After all, it's a uke not a classical guitar. The important thing is playing a uke that you like playing! Have fun.

Sorry to keep bending your ear but you sound like the perfect SME as you both play and do sound.
Normally I just DI into the PA and let the sound guy take care of everything. However, I have a beautiful 15 watt custom Boutique valve amp (Celestial speaker) which i have not used live yet. It would be perfect for Open mics but im too lazy to lug it as i normally ride my motorbike to open mics.
My next question is..do you think its worth investing in the LR BAGGS VENUE pre amp to help with the sound quality. I may be doing a set in a few months in front of a few '000 at a festival (there will be 30 or so performers/bands over 3 days) so I want to have the best sounding gear for this (Ill probably use their amp tho as they have AC30'S).

 

[Leongdad]

Hi, I think you are partly right about the electronics being more important, but electronics can’t put real sustain into an instrument. (New strings also help). Sure you can use reverb and delay but it’s a different feel. The LRBaggs preamp is a great one. I use it too. I think that’s all you need for a great sound and let the sound man do the rest. I’m guess for that large size venue you will have a profession sound guy with a good system. I also think just use their stage monitors not the ac30. If you do want to use a stage amp I would go with something made for an acoustic instrument. I have an AER Compact which sounds amazing and it is small and light. One more thing…I would practice playing your ukulele amplified. It’s a different sound and feel you will need to get familiar with. Good luck!

 

[anthonyg]

Meh. My biased two bobs worth.
I'm a professional busker playing through a small battery PA as well as performing on stages with sound engineers.
I use a microphone, not pickups.
Its chalk and cheese to me. Microphones sound great, pickups sound terrible.
If you insist on using a pickup, then don't worry about your sound. It will be what it will be. If you cared then you would use a microphone.
Anyway, that's my cranky two bobs worth.

 

[Bill Sheehan]

Meh. My biased two bobs worth.
I'm a professional busker playing through a small battery PA as well as performing on stages with sound engineers.
I use a microphone, not pickups.
Its chalk and cheese to me. Microphones sound great, pickups sound terrible.
If you insist on using a pickup, then don't worry about your sound. It will be what it will be. If you cared then you would use a microphone.
Anyway, that's my cranky two bobs worth.

Oh come on, Anthony, don't hold back... (Alright, you know I'm totally kidding there!)

But seriously, I can relate to Anthony's perspective, as I love the sound of a nicely-mic'd uke. It has that nice airy quality that's just hard to achieve with a pickup. And if there's a competent sound engineer in the equation to get you an ample amount of gain before feedback, it can't be beat.

I figure a uke could be thought of as just another "voice" (albeit a softer one)... so why not just put a mic on it just like we do with our singing voice?

I will admit, however, that I have taken a liking to the sound I get with my soprano (equipped with passive piezo disc) running into my inexpensive Behringer ADI-21 pre-amp/direct box/eq-tweaker, and then on into my little Kustom PA-50, which is generally the setup I use at the retirement home outings that I do nowadays (pretty much my only gigging). I have also done those outings with simply a mic on my voice and another mic on my uke (and left the preamp at home), with very nice results.

So I kind of go back and forth on this issue, but the best part of that is-- the more I'm preoccupied with tinkering, the less I feel obligated to actually practice! It's all good!

 

[KohanMike]

Im thinking about a double neck also but Im wanting an acoustic electric on one and steel string on other or a Ubass/acoustic electric combo (I think i will have to get a luthier friend to make them tho as I havnt seen any).

I've seen various double necks on eBay from time-to-time, including bass uke.

 

[Ukeadelic]

Meh. My biased two bobs worth.
I'm a professional busker playing through a small battery PA as well as performing on stages with sound engineers.
I use a microphone, not pickups.
Its chalk and cheese to me. Microphones sound great, pickups sound terrible.
If you insist on using a pickup, then don't worry about your sound. It will be what it will be. If you cared then you would use a microphone.
Anyway, that's my cranky two bobs worth.

The only downside with a mic is you have to stay still. im sort of a Neil Young type player as i like to rock backwards and forwards and move around a bit so a mic is not the best for me (ive tried it)

 

[Uke with Smitty]

The only downside with a mic is you have to stay still. im sort of a Neil Young type player as i like to rock backwards and forwards and move around a bit so a mic is not the best for me (ive tried it)

I’m in the same boat. The purer sound of the mic is great and all, but having to stay in one spot is annoying. That’s why I got a pickup installed. I also hate how mics pick up every little minor squeak, scrape, scratch, and any ambient noise that a pickup wouldn’t.

 

[anthonyg]

The only downside with a mic is you have to stay still. im sort of a Neil Young type player as i like to rock backwards and forwards and move around a bit so a mic is not the best for me (ive tried it)

Sure sure. Everyone has their own priorities.
In my case, no one want's to see me dance, just hear me sing and play, so sitting it is.
Who knows. One day I may hire a dancer, yet no one is paying to see me dance.

 

[SeemingMusic]

Out of interest, do violin clip on mics work for ukulele?

 

[kissing]

I'd say that once you plug in, the pickup is doing most of the work.
A better quality acoustic ukulele wouldn't necessarily sound better than an 'ordinary' acoustic ukulele through the same pickup system, because solid body electrics with no acoustic tone at all beats all of them for amplified sound.

That being said, quality of the installation (are all the contacting parts solid and tight), material of the saddle and in the case of transducer pickups like K&K the location of the transducers probably play a bigger part.

Of course any ukulele with a passive pickup like a K&K is going to sound thin and tinny through a PA system compared to an Active pickup with built-in preamp like an LR Baggs regardless of which instrument you have installed it in if you are not using an external Preamp or DI.

As a general rule, if your ukulele has a Passive pickup and you're plugging into a PA; you should be using an external preamp.
Some are expensive&fancy like the LR Baggs Para Acoustic; and some are really cheap like from Behringer and Joyo.
Acoustic preamps make a huge difference to a passive pickup'd ukulele's tone through a PA.

If you want more sustain, a solid body electric ukulele will provide that.

 

[kissing]

Out of interest, do violin clip on mics work for ukulele?

I haven't tried it myself, but in theory violin clip on mics are no different to other kinds of mics right?
If you talk or sing through it, it will amplify your voice like any other mic.

Thus I can't think how it wouldn't work with an ukulele.
Ukulele and guitars have clip on mics too made specifically for them.

 

[Uncle Leroy]

I prefer a MiSi Acoustic Trio Ukulele pickup. It is very natural sounding to my ears.

 

[Strumdaddy]

I prefer a MiSi Acoustic Trio Ukulele pickup. It is very natural sounding to my ears.

I second the vote for the MiSi

 

[DownUpDave]

There is a saying. "a pick up is the great equalizer". In other words an expensive ukulele and inexpensive ukulele sound about the same with the same pick up. Different pick ups will give you different sounds and a preamp/DI really does help to shape the tone even with an active system

 

[RafterGirl]

Another vote for the MiSi acoustic trio pick-up. I have it in all my ukes. Love that I don't have to mess with batteries. I recharge once a month & always carry the charger with me just in case. 60 second charge & I'm good to go. I think it sounds good, and some tweaking with my amp (chorus/ambience/reverb) or by the sound person on the PA is also helpful.
When I first started playing in my church band, I didn't have a uke with a pick-up, so I used a mic. I had a hard time staying positioned correctly in front of the mic.

 

[Kekani]

A good pickup will make your instrument louder, period. So a crappy acoustic sound will still be crappy, just louder. Won’t be like a good mic, but LRBaggs Five.0 through a ParaAcoustic DI or Venue (my Venue usually stays in the box, for size reasons only) will get you where you need to be with the right sound engineer. You should check out the live sound stickies in Tech.

Brad has experience with Baggs - would be good if he chimed in.

 

[kissing]

A good pickup will make your instrument louder, period. So a crappy acoustic sound will still be crappy, just louder. Won’t be like a good mic, but LRBaggs Five.0 through a ParaAcoustic DI or Venue (my Venue usually stays in the box, for size reasons only) will get you where you need to be with the right sound engineer. You should check out the live sound stickies in Tech.

Brad has experience with Baggs - would be good if he chimed in.

I don't entirely agree, though it depends a lot on what you define as "crappy acoustic sound".
If crappy includes the setup (poor action, lots of buzzing, bad saddle fit, etc) then you are probably right.
However, it would be interesting to see if people can reliably tell the difference between a $100 Kala and a $1000 Kamaka with equally good setup and same pickup system installed played through the same amp.

Pickups aren't like microphones in that they are not amplifying the actual acoustic sound.
They are changing the vibrations into electrical signals for amplifiers and PA systems.

You can't necessarily assume that better acoustic ukuleles have vibrations that equate to better pickup output.
The saddle material and how well the saddle is seated on the pickup will likely have a much greater effect.
In fact, electric ukuleles which are solid chunks of wood with virtually no acoustic sound are best for amplifying with pickups.