rreffner
Well-known member
Are all riffs played in a pentatonic scale?
Question on riffs.
- Thread starter rreffner
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Mike $
Well-known member
ripock
Well-known member
Just to elaborate a bit, the minor pentatonic scale has the 1st, flat third, 4th, 5th, and flat 7th degrees of the key. So if your riff has a 2nd or 6th interval it will be outside of the pentatonic scale as would stuff like a natural 3rd or a sharp 4. The pentatonic has most of the notes, so it is a good choice if you could only play one scale for the rest of your life.
LorenFL
Well-known member
I'm light-years away from being an expert. I don't even really consider myself a musician. But...
Nah, you can riff on any scale you want!
I like the blues scale: (minor penta + the flat 5th)
ukebuddy.com
The Japanese scale is neat:
ukebuddy.com
But, I guarantee that if you just start improvising riffs on any minor or major scale... you're going to come up with something that sounds familiar. There are a LOT of pop songs with melodies in those typical scales.
Nah, you can riff on any scale you want!
I like the blues scale: (minor penta + the flat 5th)
Ukulele Scales - UkeBuddy
View ukulele scales from styles around the world. The notes for each scale and key will be mapped out on the ukulele fretboard.
ukebuddy.com
The Japanese scale is neat:
Ukulele Scales - UkeBuddy
View ukulele scales from styles around the world. The notes for each scale and key will be mapped out on the ukulele fretboard.
ukebuddy.com
But, I guarantee that if you just start improvising riffs on any minor or major scale... you're going to come up with something that sounds familiar. There are a LOT of pop songs with melodies in those typical scales.
ripock
Well-known member
since we're talking a little more generally about riffing, here's something I like to do: I call it playing geometrically. I'll start from a scale so that it isn't pure wankery and using one of the notes of the scale as a starting point I will start playing in shapes like triangles or rhomboi, or move in lines (diagonal or horizontal). What this does is mix some chromatic and diatonic notes. Then you can take note of the intervals you like and build some riffs off those intervals. I often will combine scales and the geometries.
don_b
Well-known member
lil rev has a bunch on riffs
Ok, I'm not a music teacher, connoisseur so what I write may not always be technically correct. However, I can put on any backing track in any key on Youtube and jame away until it ends.
When we are talking about Western Music.. All (again there may be room for error here) is derived from the Major Scale.
So if for intance you learn the first position of the C Major Scale. You can literally play over any backing track in C Major by creating melodies/riffs.
Taking this a step further you can now change the sound of the melody/riff. By using Modes. For instance if you want a Spanish sounding you can play the Phrygian Mode (beyond the scope of this post) but basically if you know the C Major Scale you know Phrygian as it just starts and stops on a different note (there is also another way to play phrygian but again we'll leave the for another day).
If you know the C Major you know pretty much everything, blues scale, harmonic minor, Dorian you are simply either just adjusting a note or playing a different mode of the scale.
So onto the original question Pentatonic. The reason why people often use the Pentatonic to play riffs is that it can be played over anything and pretty much always sound good. That is not the same for all the others mentioned. For example if you want to play Harmnoic Minor over an A minor chord progression it may (and probably) won't work all the time (it will sound off). So this means you are often switching between let's say Aminor/C major scales and then adding in Harmonic Minor over certain chords. Not crazy difficult to do BUT not as easy as sticking to the Pentatnoic and it 100% working.
So in short.. The pentatonic is the safe bet so is pretty much the first thing people learn and it has a unique sound... I always think of the sounds as euphoric and often use it at the end of a solo or when I would like their to be 'elevation' in the melody. However, mixing it up with other scales/modes makes it sound more interesting.
Yes, riffs can be built out of the Pentatonic. It's very popular as it's going to work. However, there are also lots of interesting riffs that can't be created just using the Pentatnoic and learning them will provide a much more interesting sound IMHO.
When we are talking about Western Music.. All (again there may be room for error here) is derived from the Major Scale.
So if for intance you learn the first position of the C Major Scale. You can literally play over any backing track in C Major by creating melodies/riffs.
Taking this a step further you can now change the sound of the melody/riff. By using Modes. For instance if you want a Spanish sounding you can play the Phrygian Mode (beyond the scope of this post) but basically if you know the C Major Scale you know Phrygian as it just starts and stops on a different note (there is also another way to play phrygian but again we'll leave the for another day).
If you know the C Major you know pretty much everything, blues scale, harmonic minor, Dorian you are simply either just adjusting a note or playing a different mode of the scale.
So onto the original question Pentatonic. The reason why people often use the Pentatonic to play riffs is that it can be played over anything and pretty much always sound good. That is not the same for all the others mentioned. For example if you want to play Harmnoic Minor over an A minor chord progression it may (and probably) won't work all the time (it will sound off). So this means you are often switching between let's say Aminor/C major scales and then adding in Harmonic Minor over certain chords. Not crazy difficult to do BUT not as easy as sticking to the Pentatnoic and it 100% working.
So in short.. The pentatonic is the safe bet so is pretty much the first thing people learn and it has a unique sound... I always think of the sounds as euphoric and often use it at the end of a solo or when I would like their to be 'elevation' in the melody. However, mixing it up with other scales/modes makes it sound more interesting.
Yes, riffs can be built out of the Pentatonic. It's very popular as it's going to work. However, there are also lots of interesting riffs that can't be created just using the Pentatnoic and learning them will provide a much more interesting sound IMHO.
Best comment ever
And this works!
anthonyg
Well-known member
This begs the question, what is a "Riff" anyway?
Well, a riff is not a solo break. A riff is not improvisation.
A "Riff" is a musical repeatable motif with some musical form, that instantly defines a song as something completely different from any other song.
It can be strummed, flat picked or finger picked, yet its alway instantly recognisable, its alway repeated, and its most definitely not a pentatonic "Jam" session.
Beethoven's Fifth, DUN DUN DUN DUUUUUUUUN, is the most famous "Riff" in the World.
Well, a riff is not a solo break. A riff is not improvisation.
A "Riff" is a musical repeatable motif with some musical form, that instantly defines a song as something completely different from any other song.
It can be strummed, flat picked or finger picked, yet its alway instantly recognisable, its alway repeated, and its most definitely not a pentatonic "Jam" session.
Beethoven's Fifth, DUN DUN DUN DUUUUUUUUN, is the most famous "Riff" in the World.
Last edited:
Canada Jim
Well-known member
[QUOTE="anthonyg, post:
A "Riff" is a musical repeatable motif with some musical form, that instantly defines a song as something completely different from any other song.
It can be strummed, flat picked or finger picked, yet its alway instantly recognisable, its alway repeated, and its most definitely not a pentatonic "Jam" session.
[/QUOTE]
I often create riffs (repeatable motif) within an improvised jam session using the pentatonic scale I must be the exception
A "Riff" is a musical repeatable motif with some musical form, that instantly defines a song as something completely different from any other song.
It can be strummed, flat picked or finger picked, yet its alway instantly recognisable, its alway repeated, and its most definitely not a pentatonic "Jam" session.
[/QUOTE]
I often create riffs (repeatable motif) within an improvised jam session using the pentatonic scale I must be the exception
Canada Jim
Well-known member
I often create riffs (repeatable motif) within an improvised jam session using the pentatonic scale I must be the exception
[/QUOTE]
You're not "the exception". Many (most) players find that they have created a motif that sounds good enough to play again a time or two.
OP
OP
rreffner
Well-known member
Great replies. Thanks everyone.
ripock
Well-known member
just dropping by to clarify. I know what a riff and ostinato are. Up above I was just describing how I create a riff. I didn't mean to say that the process is a riff, just the end result.
I often create riffs (repeatable motif) within an improvised jam session using the pentatonic scale I must be the exception
You're not "the exception". Many (most) players find that they have created a motif that sounds good enough to play again a time or two.
[/QUOTE]
I often create riffs (repeatable motif) within an improvised jam session using the pentatonic scale I must be the exception
You're not "the exception". Many (most) players find that they have created a motif that sounds good enough to play again a time or two.
[/QUOTE]
I appreciate sarcasm is often lost via digital communication
Canada Jim
Well-known member
You're not "the exception". Many (most) players find that they have created a motif that sounds good enough to play again a time or two.
[/QUOTE]
I appreciate sarcasm is often lost via digital communication
[/QUOTE]
What has happened here. It seems the wrong people are being credited with quotes. It looks like SurferJay is credited with my post here and I am credited with his quote in his last post.
Oldscruggsfan
Well-known member
Ripock- Please forgive the following silly question but I'm posting in the twofold hope of educating myself and expanding on Jim's and Surfer Jay's excellent responses to the OP. Since, in addition to being a uke newbie, I'm completely illiterate in terms of music theory, please help me grasp your nomenclature. Does a riff become an ostinato when I repeat the riff in the same musical voice while picking any given tune, or am I exemplifying ostinato when incorporating an identical pattern of finger rolls to complete the chord progressions of an entire tune? Or is the latter an arpeggio?
ripock
Well-known member
I'm not an expert by training or experience but here's what I was taught: an ostinato is just a motif that's used more as rhythm whereas a riff is a motif more closely aligned with the melody. As far as I know there are no rules about the composition of a motif. You can use scales or arpeggios or whatever else the fecund mind can conjure.
merlin666
Well-known member
Ostinato is used in classical music, riff in rock and jazz. Riff can also be a repeating notable pattern of chords, like for smoke on the water, so a scale does not necessarily always apply.
