Ratio tuner size

Ukecaster said:
Glad to hear they have a new model with bigger buttons. IMO, the originals are well sized for soprano/concert, but the buttons always seemed small on tenors.

I recently got in a brand new set of the small button version, and will be interested to compare measurements, to see if they shortened the posts, as they seemed too long previously.
Click to expand...
Looking forward to hearing the verdict
 
baconsalad said:
Thanks for the suggestions but I live in western canada and there is an intense bureaucracy / incompetency field surrounding my region that makes all packages from the USA get tripled in price after being delayed for months - if they get delivered at all. If I was living in the grown up country or important side of the park, I'd buy from there for sure.
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I wouldn’t go so far as to say grown up. But certainly bossy. Are you in western BC or inland? Or (yikes!) Yukon Territory?
 
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Finally got around to removing the old tuners.

Last time I had them off, I forgot to measure the hole. Of course it is so small that no modern tuner will fit.

From the interwebz:
Grover champion 6: 8.1 mm
Ratio tune-a-lele; 8.75 mm
Gotoh UPT : 9.5 mm

The hole is so much too small for the ratio, that none will fit.

It seems like everyone else here has a reamer, and consider it a normal tool. Not available in hardware stores or music shops selling the tuners. Rare tool to get for a one time use.
 
I know that people here have often mentioned using somewhat inexpensive reamers. Perhaps someone can weigh in with suggestions
 
UkingViking said:
Finally got around to removing the old tuners.

Last time I had them off, I forgot to measure the hole. Of course it is so small that no modern tuner will fit.

From the interwebz:
Grover champion 6: 8.1 mm
Ratio tune-a-lele; 8.75 mm
Gotoh UPT : 9.5 mm

The hole is so much too small for the ratio, that none will fit.

It seems like everyone else here has a reamer, and consider it a normal tool. Not available in hardware stores or music shops selling the tuners. Rare tool to get for a one time use.
Click to expand...
The link below is to the reamer that I bought and have used on nearly a dozen ukes. Under $8.00

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B084X8V47S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

You don't need an expensive "violin" fixed size (aka expensive) reamer. These work just fine. Just work carefully, alternating front to back, limiting each side to one or two rotations each time. Gently regularly try to insert the ferrel every few cycles to make sure you don't over cut.
 
Does a typical ratio tuner's ferrule need a tapered hole, as a true peg would require, or would a step drill be better?

Here's an example from 'zon -$11:
Knoweasy Step Drill Bit Set - 3PCS High-Speed Steel Drill Kit for Metal, Aluminum, and Wood Hole Drilling
 
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Wiggy said:
Does a typical ratio tuner's ferrule need a tapered hole, as a true peg would require, or would a step drill be better?
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In my experience, and with the taper reamer, that I referred to in the link, there’s an advantage to using the alternating front to back process. First, the taper is not significant; it’s rather gentle for lack of a better word. And by removing from both sides, you aren’t really creating a fully tapered hole, but a slightly tapered for a very small portion from each side leaving only the center portion a little bit less tapered or less gouged out. All of the ferrets that I’ve used are “ribbed“ and when press into place gently compress that section making the fit more snug. In addition, you are actually sneaking up on a perfect fit. Whereas, using a drillbit as you suggest, you have to choose the perfect fit/perfect size.
 
WebParrot (s2) said:
... Whereas, using a drillbit as you suggest, you have to choose the perfect fit/perfect size.
Click to expand...
Thank you for explaining that. Equal reaming alternately from each side until you get a snug fit.

I only ask as I'm considering replacing the somewhat "squishy" 4:1 Duke 10's with 6:1 Ratios. I really don't want to go "ears" for obvious reasons.
 

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IME, with Ratios, the hole size needed on the back is just the diameter of the string post, which you almost always already have, while a slightly bigger hole is usually needed on top for the bushing. Even if the hole on the back is larger than the post, it's not a problem, as you have the 2 screws anchoring the back. You def want the top hole to be just right, to provide a snug fit for the bushings. Seeing folks using straight drill bits and power tools there makes me cringe, too many possibilities of costly error. I've done plenty of tuner swaps with just a cheap tapered reamer from Amazon. Just figure out the hole sizes you need front and back, then ream slowly by hand, checking the hole sizes often, until you get just the right size for either the bushing on top or tuner post in back.

With UPTs, the hole size usually needs to be increased on the back to accept the large housing, which gets inserted, while the top hole size accuracy is less critical, since the top bushing screws into the housing which was inserted from the back, providing a rock solid connection. In addition, a tiny additional hole is needed on the back, where the little tooth is inserted, keeping the back housing from spinning.
 
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It seems like the reamers are only available through Chinese shops selling them on Amazon.
One I found had 2 different sets of min and max diameters quoted in the description, and a third shown on the schematic. Some state the length of the handle, but not the diameter is is used for. Its a jungle.
Does anyone know a reliable EU seller, or will I just need to trust my luck?

I would wish there were available from Thomann. They sell so many tuners for so many instruments. It would make sense.

Also, know I need to buy UPTs also. I only cheaped out at got the Ratios because I thought I wouldnt need the reamer. Well, I guess they can go on a cheaper uke from my collection. I wonder when I will get around to all of this.
 
Wiggy said:
Does a typical ratio tuner's ferrule need a tapered hole, as a true peg would require, or would a step drill be better?
Click to expand...

In September I installed tune-a-lele for a uke buddy (so extra pressure to do it right).

They work great and are my top choice for an easy and inexpensive upgrade.

My anxiety would have been low if I’d understood a few basic things.


Lessons learned:

- Could have reduced anxiety by practicing on a piece of hardwood

- The ferrule is 0.344” aka 8.75mm to the outside of the splines. The hole needs to be just a smidgin smaller so the splines can grip.

- SAE tool size 11/32” = 0.340”

- Metric tool size 8.50 mm

- A tapered hole is not needed, but tapering causes no trouble.

- Only the ferrule side needs to be enlarged because the knob side is positioned with teeny tiny screws

- On a slot head you can work from the outside inwards. It doesn’t matter if the outside part of the enlargement is bigger than needed because positioning is by screws

- In hindsight I strongly recommend using a tapered reamer as a simple low cost tool.

- A basic reamer costs $8-10 or €6-10. Don’t freak about the looks of the reamer and just think of it as an another cheap thingy to add to the toolbox. Sorta like a screwdriver or drill bit not in your collection. (Check availability and shipping cost)

- The ferrule side of the post hole needs to become 11/32” aka 8.5mm. This within the range of reamers with typical spec of 1/8 to 1/2” taper aka 3 to 13 mm taper. Easy peasy.

- A stepped bit would need to include an 11/32” aka 8.5 mm step. The step will be shallower than the ferrule depth so it needs to be followed by a drill bit. (If working outside inwards on a slot head use a block of wood so the drill won’t tear out when it emerges.)

- Drill the screw holes with a bit 5/64”, 1.8mm, 2mm. Avoid drilling through by using tape to indicate safe depth.


Other comments:

- I used a drill bit to enlarge the ferrule hole because I was worried about the tapered reamer hole weakening the thin sides of the Fluke headstock. It was a totally unnecessary worry.

- The 11/32” drill bit is an irregular size not found in standard sets. I called around town to find one at a reasonable price for one time use.

- The 11/32 bit looked like it might wander. So spent more money on a step bit. Fortunately step bits are frequently on sale at a deep discount.

- Perhaps avoid the cost of a step bit by using a piece of hardwood to practice using only drill bits (increasing sizes)

- Folks in the woodwork shop suggested using sandpaper on a dowel. It did not work because the wood was well seasoned and much too hard.

- The smallest bit in my set (1/16”, 1.6mm) made a screw hole that was too tight. This made screws hard to turn and I broke off a few of those teeny tiny screw heads. The next size (5/64”, 2mm) made the screwdriver work easy peasy, and the screws were secure.

- Screw spacing was tricky resulting in tilted screws. I removed one screw in each pair, and re-drilled using the tune-e-lele screw hole as a template. Worked great. Next time I’ll install the first screw of each pair before drilling a hole for the second screw.

Best regards.
 
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Just found a video about installing tune-a-lele on Kamaka ukulele. Would have helped me visualize the task.

Installer used only a drill bit 🫣. No reamer or step bit 🥸.

 
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My reamer has finally arrived, and I seem to lack even more tools.

What size drill have people used for pilot holes for the screws?
My smallest drill is 2 mm, but the whole screw head would fit through that. Is 1 mm right?

I am a bit concerned here, the screws are pretty long. Only a few mm shorter than going through the headstock.
 
Not sure on the drill bit size, but If you have a digital caliper, I'd measure the screw diameter, then choose a bit slightly smaller, so the screw will have something to grab onto.

I never use power drills for such intricate work, I'm always afraid I'll slip and drill through, even with a tape depth marker on the bit. I bought this precision screwdriver set on Amazon and also use it with tiny drill bits, to do intricate jobs like this by hand. I first hand ream (if needed) on top to place the bushings snugly, then center/position the tuner on the back, mark the screw hole spots with a pointy awl, then turn the drill bit slowly to get to the depth I need. All the included screwdrivers, hooks and awls in this kit are also very handy for other tiny uke work, and lots of other things. I store a baggie with tiny drill bits in the kit.

I have a fresh set of Ratios I haven't used yet. When I insert a screw, it sticks out 6.8mm in the back, plenty of room for most every uke headstock depth. The screws are about 1.6mm thick , so I'd want a drill bit slightly smaller, maybe 1.25mm. Also, I find the Ratio screws rather soft, and I've stripped a few heads over the years, so I invested in the mini black steel screw set shown below. Pretty sure the ones I used with Ratios were M2*10. Those measure about 1.6mm wide with my caliper, and are identical to the Ratio screws, but with a slight larger head, and probably stronger, being carbon steel.

 

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Ukecaster said:
Not sure on the drill bit size, but If you have a digital caliper, I'd measure the screw diameter, then choose a bit slightly smaller, so the screw will have something to grab onto.

I never use power drills for such intricate work, I'm always afraid I'll slip and drill through. I bought this precision screwdriver set on Amazon and also use it with tiny drill bits, to do intricate jobs like this by hand. Just turn it and slowly get to the depth you need. All the included screwdrivers, hooks and awls are also very handy for other tiny uke work, and lots of other things.

Click to expand...
Looks like you could clean your own teeth with them too.
 
The smallest commonly available size I've come across is 1/64" which is about .4mm. Definitely thin and fragile, not something to put into an electric drill.
 
I agree w/Ukecaster (post#34).... no power tools : -) I purchased the jewelers' hand drill. (actually more like a finger drill) (see non-affiliate link below) and use it for side dots and tuner/machines.

To get an accurate depth/clearance measure, place the new tuner on the back of the headstock and measure the combined thickness at the tuners' screw hole. Transfer that measurement to the bit and place a piece of tape on the bit, marking the depth, subtracting a 1/16". Because you are "finger drilling" you can sneak up on the fit.

To choose the right bit size thickness hold various bits in front of the screw threads until the solid shank of the screw "disappears" behind the drill bit. This assures that the solid shank doesn't try to expand the "hole" wider than the threads need. I also apply a little bees wax (or paraffin) to the threads to ease resistance.

For under $10 US this also comes with 8 very small drill bits:

 
WebParrot (s2) said:
I agree w/Ukecaster (post#34).... no power tools : -) I purchased the jewelers' hand drill. (actually more like a finger drill) (see non-affiliate link below) and use it for side dots and tuner/machines.

To get an accurate depth/clearance measure, place the new tuner on the back of the headstock and measure the combined thickness at the tuners' screw hole. Transfer that measurement to the bit and place a piece of tape on the bit, marking the depth, subtracting a 1/16". Because you are "finger drilling" you can sneak up on the fit.

To choose the right bit size thickness hold various bits in front of the screw threads until the solid shank of the screw "disappears" behind the drill bit. This assures that the solid shank doesn't try to expand the "hole" wider than the threads need. I also apply a little bees wax (or paraffin) to the threads to ease resistance.

For under $10 US this also comes with 8 very small drill bits:

Click to expand...
+1, yes, the black one I added to my kit is exactly that item.
 
WebParrot (s2) said:
I agree w/Ukecaster (post#34).... no power tools : -) I purchased the jewelers' hand drill. (actually more like a finger drill) (see non-affiliate link below) and use it for side dots and tuner/machines.

To get an accurate depth/clearance measure, place the new tuner on the back of the headstock and measure the combined thickness at the tuners' screw hole. Transfer that measurement to the bit and place a piece of tape on the bit, marking the depth, subtracting a 1/16". Because you are "finger drilling" you can sneak up on the fit.

To choose the right bit size thickness hold various bits in front of the screw threads until the solid shank of the screw "disappears" behind the drill bit. This assures that the solid shank doesn't try to expand the "hole" wider than the threads need. I also apply a little bees wax (or paraffin) to the threads to ease resistance.

For under $10 US this also comes with 8 very small drill bits:

Click to expand...
I use the same type of tool, from my machinist background it was always referred to as a “Pin Vice”
Excellent way to have total control.
 
i always lubricate my screws when they are going into a hard wood; my grandfather used bar soap I use a tiny bit of grease.
 
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