Tenor and Classical Guitars

[DownUpDave]

How big is the blue ridge, do you know if it is about 00 size? Asking for a friend, as the kids say.

Hi maybe I can help with your question. I own a Blueridge BR40 and a Eastman 00-12 feet six string acoustic. Below I have taken a picture and from left to right is a Taylor GS mini, Blueridge BR40 and the Eastman 00.

Sizes are Taylor 17-1/2" X 14-3/8" body length and lower bout width.
........ Blueridge 17-1/4" x 13-1/2.
..Eastman 00 is 19-1/2"x 14-1/2". Any questions feel free to ask.

 

[Down Up Dick]

When I speak of size, I’m talkin’ about body size and not the over all length.

Either the body’s too big on mine, or my belly’s too big. My Kala fits better. I’m dieting now though . . . ld:

 

[old and slow]

What you need Dick, is something like my thinline acoustic-electric Charvel Surfcaster converted to tenor guitar.

Wait..?..maybe that's what I need!

It has a 25.35" or so scale. But doesn't feel overly long. And a somewhat wide 1.75" or so nut. But I don't think that would bother me with four strings.

It does have a preamp, so maybe a bass!?

Only thing is, it's somewhat collectible and in perfect condition. But not super outrageously valuable.

 

[SteveZ]

Hi, Steve, I surely like shoppin’ at stores rather than buying from the internet. I like to examine stuff, handle it, heft it plunk it, etc. and actually make a choice to buy it. I just dropped Amazon, mostly because of the Prime stuff, and because one isn’t able to communicate with them at all. I’m not gonna shop with them anymore. I’ll either buy somewhere else or just not get it.

What’s the difference between a classical guitar and a six string acoustic?

I’m a long, long way from givin’ a recital. You’ll just hafta believe me when I say that I can really play good . . . ld:

Classical has nylon strings and braced differently - can't use steel strings at all on one. Much softer and mellower sound (to me, anyway). Granddaughter is about 5'2" and 100 pounds. Gave her my 000-sized dreadnaught acoustic guitar a couple years ago and its almost as big as she is. This new one fits her better.

 

[Down Up Dick]

Classical has nylon strings and braced differently - can't use steel strings at all on one. Much softer and mellower sound (to me, anyway). Granddaughter is about 5'2" and 100 pounds. Gave her my 000-sized dreadnaught acoustic guitar a couple years ago and its almost as big as she is. This new one fits her better.

Thanks, Steve, I just wondered. ld:

 

[John boy]

Classical guitars also usually have slightly wider fingerboards, to accommodate the nylon strings. The wider neck makes it a bit harder to form barre chords on all six strings. Calls for slightly different wrist position sometimes, depending on the particular instrument.

 

[Davoravo]

Hi everyone

I been thinking about octave mandolin or octave ukulele tuning (gcea but down an octave at g2) The models in this thread are all pretty much full size guitars in 19th century sizes so i assume this would work, anyone tried? Sorry i am asking tuning questions everywhere

 

[SteveZ]

Hi everyone

I been thinking about octave mandolin or octave ukulele tuning (gcea but down an octave at g2) The models in this thread are all pretty much full size guitars in 19th century sizes so i assume this would work, anyone tried? Sorry i am asking tuning questions everywhere

One can get tenor guitars in a variety of sizes. Guitar sizes vary radically ( https://sixstringacoustic.com/the-different-sizes-of-acoustic-guitars ). My Martin appears to be a OO, while the Blueridge OOO sized.

Octave mandolins are cool, but the price difference between guitars and mandolins can be stiff. To me, one can make almost any guitar sound presentable, but a bad sounding mandolin is often beyond help. I have an inexpensive mandolin in the closet I can't salvage despite a lot of trying, and I don't list it as part of the stable. Inexpensive mandolins make great wall-hangers but that's all the value they have. Finding a decent octave mandolin at a half-decent price is difficult.

 

[Davoravo]

Thanks Steve, sorry my post was badly worded. I did mean low G2 GDAE tuning on a tenor guitar (I may be confused between octave mandola and mandolin tuning). I don’t think I am brave enough to buy a mandola or mandolin, although if ukuleles didn’t exist I might have been tempted.

Also thanks to downupdave for posting the size comparison, that was very helpful as I have handled a Taylor gs mini so I can relate to that size.

 

[Down Up Dick]

I like CGDA on my tenor guitar okay, but lately I’ve been likin’ DGBE a bit better. I find CGDA easier to finger pick, but the DGBE fretting area is more “compact (?)”. Also, it’s closer to my banjo tunings.

Ahhh well, time will tell . . . Ha! ld:

 

[Jupu]

I'm interested in a longer scale, preferably a tenor guitar. I'm thinking of the regular gCEA uke tuning, just an octave lower.

Problem is, the ones I've found tend to have a slanted saddle. Wouldn't that form an intonation problem with reentrant tuning? What's strange though is that baritone ukes usually have straight bridges. Is it to do with the steel vs. nylon strings or the slightly shorter scale what?

Am I limited to electric tenor guitars, like the Fender or the Eastwood? Even with those, wouldn't there be a need to replace the nut, because of the thinner 4th string?

 

[old and slow]

I'm interested in a longer scale, preferably a tenor guitar. I'm thinking of the regular gCEA uke tuning, just an octave lower.

Problem is, the ones I've found tend to have a slanted saddle. Wouldn't that form an intonation problem with reentrant tuning? What's strange though is that baritone ukes usually have straight bridges. Is it to do with the steel vs. nylon strings or the slightly shorter scale what?

Am I limited to electric tenor guitars, like the Fender or the Eastwood? Even with those, wouldn't there be a need to replace the nut, because of the thinner 4th string?

There are ways to fill the slots in the nut and recut. I've already converted my Washburn Rover(23.75" scale) to tenor guitar, though it will eventually need some more work on the nut. I'm not set on tuning yet.
And I'm in the thinkin stage of converting a Squier Mini(22.75" scale) that will need some nut and bridge adjustments, and possibly rail pickups. Probably do some drilling on tge bridge and filling and filing on the nut.

As far as the intonation, someone more experienced would have to answer those questions.

 

[Davoravo]

My current six string steel string guitar is a parlour and has a straight bridge and non-compensated saddle. The angle and compensation improve accuracy of tuning if you play up the neck as steel strings are different sizes and get stretched differently as you play higher frets. A set of nylon strings usually has less difference in size from one to the other, particularly a re entrant set and only four strings so compensation is less neccessary on a ukulele. Shorter scale length probably helps too.

I suspect you would get away with gCEA tuning and you could experiment with slacker strings to help it work, but i have to ask why give away the advantages of a smaller instrument and scale length?

If you want a steel string ukulele then the new kmise tenor guitar looks like it is built on a baritone ukulele body and would give you a steel string baritone ukulele that you could do this tuning on. It is cheap and has a non angled bridge and saddle

 

[Jupu]

My current six string steel string guitar is a parlour and has a straight bridge and non-compensated saddle. The angle and compensation improve accuracy of tuning if you play up the neck as steel strings are different sizes and get stretched differently as you play higher frets. A set of nylon strings usually has less difference in size from one to the other, particularly a re entrant set and only four strings so compensation is less neccessary on a ukulele. Shorter scale length probably helps too.

I suspect you would get away with gCEA tuning and you could experiment with slacker strings to help it work, but i have to ask why give away the advantages of a smaller instrument and scale length?

If you want a steel string ukulele then the new kmise tenor guitar looks like it is built on a baritone ukulele body and would give you a steel string baritone ukulele that you could do this tuning on. It is cheap and has a non angled bridge and saddle

Good point about the string material. But we do agree that the angled saddle is meant for strings that go from thickest to thinnest (or vice versa), i. e. not for re-entrant sets?

I guess I would sacrifice the advantages and disadvantages of the smaller instrument and replace them with those of a larger one. At least I thought that I can sing lower than the C4 of the normal uke tuning, and I have tried playing melodies that go lower (to no avail, of course). What specific advantages of the smaller instrument are you referring to? I am quite fond of not having to move my hand much or being able to introduce nice open voicings to chords, but I think a bassier sound might also come in handy every now and again.

Tell you the truth though, I'm not sure which scale would be most useful and which would sound nicest - or which string material - and can I still fingerstyle and campanella with a steel-strung (acoustic or solid) etc etc. That Kmise seems like a good value starting point, although I'm not sure if the body is big enough to resonate well the C3 I'm looking for. It's not imperative though; I'm just trying to get the easy way out not having to learn a new fretboard... And also, if some interval makes more sense for a two-instrument setup than an octave, then maybe the a3-D3-F#3-B4 or something along those lines might make more sense?

 

[Davoravo]

I dont own one but The kmise comes strung as cdga (c3) so would easily do what you want.

Apologies, i forgot mid-sentence that you wanted your g down an octave, as for reentrant i was presuming you would want normal ukulele tuning and i got confused . The kmise would also easily do linear Dgbe in that range. Having changed my tenor to reentrant dgbe it wasn’t hard, i just learned new songs with the new positions and knowing the gcea positions was a huge advantage as i could immediately jump to fret five and start playing different chord shapes. I am a ukulele beginner so it is quite a good trick to make me look better than i am

To be honest, i am considering linear gcea (rather than adgb or a variant) myself in the same octave range for the c as you are thinking but i dont think the kmise is big enough for that low low g.

Edit - Edit my edit because i am still out by an octave :-D :-D

 

[Jupu]

At least in Amazon it seems it's ADGC and not CDGA? But you're right, the C3 shouldn't be a problem anyway.

A good point about the 5th fret shapes !

 

[Davoravo]

Sorry typo CGDA, some guitar players list the strings in the opposite order so it is the same as ADGC

 

[old and slow]

Jupu, this guy tuned his linear GCEA.... I think. Maybe this might get close to what you want?
https://youtu.be/tpTDpMbzoV0

This idea of all the different tunings for a tenor guitar is quite a learning experience for me.
Previously I had seen this guy tune his open C. CGCG I believe.
https://youtu.be/pjpRTkHIBLA
The custom made octave mandolin that one of the guys plays is really interesting. Neck profile, and scale, looks very similar to my Washburn Rover, which feels just right to me.

 

[Jupu]

Jupu, this guy tuned his linear GCEA.... I think. Maybe this might get close to what you want?
https://youtu.be/tpTDpMbzoV0

Yeah, close! But I'd like re-entrant. I have come across that video too, but it's even harder to find. Actually, it's surprisingly hard to find even videos about reentrant baritone ukes. Either it's some accustomed way to play that people don't bother changing or they don't bother with the wide 4th string nut slot (and the saddle compensation) or perhaps hunting for the strings or smth.

Anyway, it doesn't cease to amaze me how little re-entrant four string ukes/guitars above tenor ukes there are available compared to the immense amount there are below tenor ukes. I don't see there being a superiority in the small-scale reentrants compared to bigger. Not much at least, and even that is mainly tradition.

 

[old and slow]

Yeah, close! But I'd like re-entrant. I have come across that video too, but it's even harder to find. Actually, it's surprisingly hard to find even videos about reentrant baritone ukes. Either it's some accustomed way to play that people don't bother changing or they don't bother with the wide 4th string nut slot (and the saddle compensation) or perhaps hunting for the strings or smth.

Anyway, it doesn't cease to amaze me how little re-entrant four string ukes/guitars above tenor ukes there are available compared to the immense amount there are below tenor ukes. I don't see there being a superiority in the small-scale reentrants compared to bigger. Not much at least, and even that is mainly tradition.

There's the Venezuelan Cuatro? Which is kind of an opposite reentrant tuning.