Use & implication of low-g on soprano?

[Flea Flicker]

Hi Folks,

A couple of quick questions about the use of low-G on a soprano uke and its implications.

I've got a reasonably good-quality (Koaloha) soprano uke that came strung with a high-g set of strings (black in color, so probably GHS nylon), and I'd really like to try-out a low-G set of Aquila's, but I have two key questions:

1) When purchasing the low-G set of Aquila's, should I opt for a 'soprano' set or a 'concert' set? I ask this because I've seen mention of people using concert low-G's on a soprano uke (instead of soprano low-G's) to help produce higher tension, apparently for greater projection.

2) Should I have any concerns about potential damage or strain on the neck of my soprano uke from the added tension of the low-G?

Thanks for your help!

 

[hmgberg]

Hi:

I'm not sure, but the strings on your Koaloha may be Worth Browns, as Koaloha endorses worth strings (at least my packets of Worth strings read so). I've read opposing thoughts on your question about using concert strings on a soprano. While some people do it all the time and have had no problems with the neck or bridge, others say the added tension may be problematic down the line. There are tension charts online, but I think individual instruments respond differently, and then there are other environmental elements at play. You might try contacting Koaloha with your query.

Another issue may be the g string nut slot. You may have to widen it for a low g set up. If you go to an Aquila low g, you may have to widen it even more.

If you are unhappy with the strings on the Koaloha at present, know that Worth Browns are intended to be mellow as compared to the clears. If they are instead black nylon strings, they probably don't have a lot of ring to them. I guess what I'm suggesting is that you try a set of soprano low g strings, even Worth Clear low G first, to see if your projection issue is resolved. If you are still unhappy, then try a concert set.

 

[Flea Flicker]

Hi:

1) I'm not sure, but the strings on your Koaloha may be Worth Browns, as Koaloha endorses worth strings (at least my packets of Worth strings read so).

2) I've read opposing thoughts on your question about using concert strings on a soprano. While some people do it all the time and have had no problems with the neck or bridge, others say the added tension may be problematic down the line. There are tension charts online, but I think individual instruments respond differently, and then there are other environmental elements at play. You might try contacting Koaloha with your query.

3) Another issue may be the g string nut slot. You may have to widen it for a low g set up. If you go to an Aquila low g, you may have to widen it even more.

4) If you are unhappy with the strings on the Koaloha at present, know that Worth Browns are intended to be mellow as compared to the clears. If they are instead black nylon strings, they probably don't have a lot of ring to them. I guess what I'm suggesting is that you try a set of soprano low g strings, even Worth Clear low G first, to see if your projection issue is resolved. If you are still unhappy, then try a concert set.

Thanks Hmgberg,

1) No idea as to whether my current strings are Worth or GHS or what, but they are definitely black in color and quite bright sounding;

2) The last thing I need is problems with the neck and/or bridge on a relatively new uke (its been played very-very little), and yes, I've tried contacting Koaloha for guidance but I've not (as yet) been able to reach them. Anyway, yes, I think I'll stay away from concert strings;

3) Regarding the issue of widening the nut . . . Yikes! I hadn't thought about that! But its a great point. It stands to reason that it will need to be widened and such a change is semi-permanent in the sense that a complete nut replacement will be necessary to return to high-g if desired. Bummer! I guess I'll have to give that some additional thought;

4) As for being "unhappy" with the current high-G strings, its not that I'm unhappy. Its current sound is a typical, ultra high-pitched, Hawaiian sounding soprano, but I'm after something a bit thicker, with a warmer, mellower sound. In fact, I opened another thread here at UUG addressing this very issue. Basically, I'm after the deeper, warmer tenor (or tenor-like) sound that Izzy seemed to get in his recording of 'Over The Rainbow', and its not clear to me whether I can achieve this sound with a low-G equipped soprano or whether I'll need to actually purchase a dedicated tenor uke.

Thanks again for your comments.

 

[southcoastukes]

... Basically, I'm after the deeper, warmer tenor (or tenor-like) sound that Izzy seemed to get in his recording of 'Over The Rainbow', and its not clear to me whether I can achieve this sound with a low-G equipped soprano or whether I'll need to actually purchase a dedicated tenor uke....

Do you want your soprano to sound good or sound low? Unfortunately, you can't have it both ways. I'm not saying you won't enjoy playing one with a low 4th, but you asked about the implications. Your instrument won't be tuned to it's best advantage. If you want to take a look at the "science", look here:

http://www.ukuleles.com/Technology/sounds.html

As you can see, the high re-entrant C is borderline low on a Soprano. Dropping the 4th string an octave puts it out of the ballpark. Of course, ukulele players are always doing these kinds of things, and they can be a lot of fun in the short term.

To tell the truth, I don't know what Iz played on that song, but if it was a Tenor, you'l get a much better Tenor sound out of a Tenor than with any sort of stringing on a Soprano.

 

[Flea Flicker]

To tell the truth, I don't know what Iz played on that song, but if it was a Tenor, you'll get a much better Tenor sound out of a Tenor than with any sort of stringing on a Soprano.

I don't know what Izzy used either and I'm certainly going to keep digging until I find out with some certainty, but what you've said here is sage advice (i.e., I suspect that a true tenor will indeed sound closer to what I'm after). I guess I was just trying to explore the available (feasible) options other than spending another $2-4K on a tenor uke.

 

[southcoastukes]

... I suspect that a true tenor will indeed sound closer to what I'm after. I guess I was just trying to explore the available (feasible) options other than spending another $2-4K on a tenor uke.

If you like a lower sound - sell the soprano! Of course, if you like both, you'd end up with another one anyway. While a Tenor natually gives a deeper sound, a concert, especially a longneck, will take to lower tunings much better than a soprano.

If you go to our site, at the bottom of each of the "Instrument" pages there are tuning samples. While our instruments are usually of the long scale variety, still, they should give you a general idea of where you may want to go in terms of sound:

http://www.southcoastukes.com/index_files/instruments.htm

 

[d-mace]

I think the Aquila low g soprano string works great. It thinner than the non-wound low g strings so you will not need to widen any slots. Look at videos from Sam at Ukulele Uprising....he told me this is the low g string of his preference. I would however use Worths or Southcoast strings for the other 3 strings for a mellower sound than the Aquilas.

 

[Flea Flicker]

. . . the Aquila low g soprano string . . . (is) thinner than the non-wound low g strings so you will not need to widen any slots. Look at videos from Sam at Ukulele Uprising....he told me this is the low g string of his preference. I would however use Worths or Southcoast strings for the other 3 strings for a mellower sound than the Aquilas.

If so, this is 'fabulous' news, but its a tuff thing to determine firsthand since neither Aquila nor any of its known dealers readily publish the diameter of their wound G. I'll just have to evaluate it relative to the nut on my soprano once I actually have a low-G in-hand. either way, I'll be good - I've got a set of Stew-Mac nut files here to help me shape the nut slot if it becomes necessary. Anyway, thanks for sharing your views and thanks also for the suggestion on the other (mellower) strings. However, its awfully hard to imagine anything being brighter or crisper sounding than my current (black colored) strings.

 

[hmgberg]

Widening the nut slot is not necessarily irreversible. I have been told that it is possible to fill in the slot with an epoxy gel and then re-slot it.

My ears agree with what Dirk wrote; when I use low g on a soprano, it just doesn't seem to resonate in the same dynamic way. I don't understand the chart/science (I would love it were you to explain it to me, Dirk-if you have time). That said, Ohta-san typically plays a low g strung soprano and sounds fabulous...but, it's a Martin, it's often plugged in, and well, it's Ohta-san.

 

[SailingUke]

I have tried low g on sopranos, concerts and tenors.
I don't care for low g voice and sopranos and concerts.
To me they have a sweet high voice that is muddied by the low g.
Tenors with a low g are a different story. I like both high and low g on a tenor, which is why I have several ukuleles.
Bottom line is you should try low g and see if you get the sound YOU are looking for.
Don't be afraid to experiment with different strings, they all sound different and there is no one perfect string or there would be only one string company.

 

[Dominator]

I don't know what Izzy used either and I'm certainly going to keep digging until I find out with some certainty, but what you've said here is sage advice

IZ played a Martin Tenor with low G when he performed live. I'm pretty sure he used the same uke in the studio when he recorded SOTR/WAWW but obviously, I can't guarantee that to absolutely be the case.

 

[Lori]

You can try out the thicker sting, even if it doesn't fit in the nut. I tried that on my Kanile'a, and it sounded fine... no buzz. I was using a non-wound Worth Clear low g on a super concert. I just let it sit on top of the nut groove. I have also tried low g on concert length ukes, and have gotten mixed results. It depends on the uke. The tendency is for that string to sound dull like a rubber band, with little sustain. Sometimes a wound string will give you more sustain. I have several ukes in low g, but no sopranos. I ended up switching the Kanile'a back to standard tuning even though it sounded great as a low g. It sounds even better as a high g, so I am glad I didn't change the nut.
–Lori

 

[Manalishi]

Myself and a few members of our Ukulele Club have tried on
different scales and the general concensus here,is that low
G works great on (most) Tenor Ukuleles;Can be good or not
so good on Concert Ukuleles;and is generally terrible on Soprano
Ukuleles,because as has already been mentioned here,the tension
on the Low G is not what it needs to be.And with the soprano
having such a small soundbox to 'drive' the resulting sound is
not particularly good.Just my (and my friends) opinion(s)!

 

[Flea Flicker]

Many thanx folks! Lots of great information here and I've learned a great deal, but I think the one key thing that I've learned is that I'm not likely to get anywhere near the tenor sound I'm after by fitting my soprano with a low-G, and this is huge. I still intend to experiment with it (i.e., testing a low-G on my soprano), but in the end, I think I'll be better served by purchasing a genuine tenor uke.

I should also add that since first posting this and other related threads here on UUG about Izzy's instruments, I've learned with some degree of confidence that he used his low-G equipped Martin tenor to record 'Over The Rainbow', which adds further support to another (tenor) purchase. Now all I have to do is find out whether current-day Martin's are worth owning (sound-wise) relative to their vintage (1950's) counterparts. The search never ends! Haaaa!

Thanks All!

 

[southcoastukes]

... when I use low g on a soprano, it just doesn't seem to resonate in the same dynamic way. I don't understand the chart/science (I would love it were you to explain it to me, Dirk-if you have time). That said, Ohta-san typically plays a low g strung soprano and sounds fabulous...but, it's a Martin, it's often plugged in, and well, it's Ohta-san.

Let me start by trying to explain the chart. I won't pretend to be an expert in acoustics, but the air resonance chart shows where the deepest natural frequency occurs within the cavity of different size ukulele bodies.

As a general rule, your best tuning - and your instrument's best performance comes when the lowest note in your set-up approaches the frequency of this deep natural resonance.

Go below it and a couple of things can hapeen - neither good. First, you can have some nasty unwanted overtones, or less drastic, you just don't get much resonance out of your deep string.

You may notice that a low G is actually just over the limit even on a Tenor. This is why there are so many problems with that tuning, even on that size instrument. As obvious as the problem is, people insist on banging their heads against that wall. Just look at how many threads there are on this site searching for a workable "Low G" string. That's on a Tenor, where it is just barely over the edge. Another page on David's site compares what happens by raising the tuning just one step, to a linear D - a note now just above the body resonance:

http://www.ukuleles.com/SetupnCare/TenorTune.html

Actually the Soprano may not have as many problems as a Tenor. It may be that the G is so deep for that little body that it's just kind of dead instead of annoying, as is often the case on some Tenors.

Finally, you metioned Ohta. First, I was under the impression that he usually plays a concert (not sure on that), but a low G is low even there. There's always the example of the good player who uses the off tuning. The best explanation for this is the one you gave: he's Ohta.

And finally, if you are going to plug in, you can usually throw all this tuning / body resonance relationship out the window and do pretty much anything you want (UBass, anyone?).

 

[Flea Flicker]

Let me start by trying to explain the chart. I won't pretend to be an expert in acoustics, but the air resonance chart shows where the deepest natural frequency occurs within the cavity of different size ukulele bodies.

Southcoast,

Thanks for all the great info you've posted here including the resonance chart. I've got one quick question . . . do you happen to know the units of measure on the resonance chart? In other words, where it shows ~195 as the calculated resonance for a tenor's low-G string, is that in units of Hertz (Hz) or what?

 

[hmgberg]

Let me start by trying to explain the chart. I won't pretend to be an expert in acoustics, but the air resonance chart shows where the deepest natural frequency occurs within the cavity of different size ukulele bodies.

As a general rule, your best tuning - and your instrument's best performance comes when the lowest note in your set-up approaches the frequency of this deep natural resonance.

Go below it and a couple of things can hapeen - neither good. First, you can have some nasty unwanted overtones, or less drastic, you just don't get much resonance out of your deep string.

You may notice that a low G is actually just over the limit even on a Tenor. This is why there are so many problems with that tuning, even on that size instrument. As obvious as the problem is, people insist on banging their heads against that wall. Just look at how many threads there are on this site searching for a workable "Low G" string. That's on a Tenor, where it is just barely over the edge. Another page on David's site compares what happens by raising the tuning just one step, to a linear D - a note now just above the body resonance:

http://www.ukuleles.com/SetupnCare/TenorTune.html

Actually the Soprano may not have as many problems as a Tenor. It may be that the G is so deep for that little body that it's just kind of dead instead of annoying, as is often the case on some Tenors.

Finally, you metioned Ohta. First, I was under the impression that he usually plays a concert (not sure on that), but a low G is low even there. There's always the example of the good player who uses the off tuning. The best explanation for this is the one you gave: he's Ohta.

And finally, if you are going to plug in, you can usually throw all this tuning / body resonance relationship out the window and do pretty much anything you want (UBass, anyone?).

Thanks, Dirk. I'll go back and review the chart.
As for Ohta, he's playing a Martin Style 3 in most of the Youtube videos I've seen. I know he has also played concert ukulele: Kamakas and LoPrinzis that are his signature models.

 

[PhilUSAFRet]

Doubt low g on a soprano would give you the kind of low resonance you are hoping for.

 

[laundromatt]

I tried an Aquila low-g set on my Kamaka pineapple. It actually sounded okay, and I liked the wider range across the four strings, especially when picking (I'm a guitar player as well). For strumming, I like high-g better.

That being said, you should just give it a try yourself and see, instead of letting others' experiences make up your mind for you. It doesn't cost that much for a set of strings, and nothing's irreversible.

 

[Flea Flicker]

I tried an Aquila low-g set on my Kamaka pineapple. It actually sounded okay, and I liked the wider range across the four strings, especially when picking (I'm a guitar player as well). For strumming, I like high-g better.

That being said, you should just give it a try yourself and see, instead of letting others' experiences make up your mind for you. It doesn't cost that much for a set of strings, and nothing's irreversible.

Yes, I understand that I can try it for myself (that's a given), and yes, I understand that strings are cheap, but ukuleles and necks are not, so let me reiterate the original two questions of this thread in hopes that we don't get too lost in the shuffle here:

1) When purchasing the low-G set, should I opt for a 'soprano' set or a 'concert' set? I ask this because I've seen mention of people using concert low-G's on a soprano uke (instead of soprano low-G's) to help produce higher tension, apparently for greater projection.

2) Should I have any concerns about potential damage or strain on the neck of a soprano uke from the added tension of the low-G?

Thank you!