Classical Ukulele Players Challenge!

[DelGriff]

This is a really neat riff on a classical piece!!! I'm ok with it It's more about getting people to play something classical, and this is definitely a classical piece, if not handled in a traditionally classical manner. Is the main melody on a keyboard too?

Thanks! And yes - everything else is keyboard. The electronic drum part is my own creation too.

 

[engravertom]

I don’t know if this belongs here. If the general consensus is that it doesn’t, I’ll happily remove it from the thread. I did this a few years back for a Season Of The Ukulele. For a bit of background info, I’m including what I wrote then as the introduction for it. Be patient, there is some ukulele in the mix, as you’ll see/hear.

Del! That’s amazing! Just a super creative and excellent production! So glad you joined in!

 

[Timm_S]

And using thumb index for scale passages was the method even guitarists like Fernando Sor used and taught...
My point is that you are free to do what you like, and what works best for you!

Many times, people who insist on a “right way “ may be just unaware of the larger tradition of how instruments have been played...

Since taking up the Uke in January, I have enjoyed strumming and jamming with friends etc. but I'm most interested in the Classical side of things too and I too, really appreciate this thread.
A question for those who might have worked through the Jeff Peterson Graded Repertoire book (or anyone, really)—I've started on the second exercise, the Study No. 1 (in F) by Fernando Sor. I'm trying to stay disciplined 'cuz this is new to me, learning about PIMA finger-picking and all that. In his written introduction to this piece, Jeff Peterson says to "be mindful of correct alteration of i and m". I'm working with that, even though sometimes his suggested fingers don't always match my instincts and it messes me up.
Then I looked up his video of this piece on You Tube, and I noticed he is even using different fingers for picking from how his book says to do it. Am I over-thinking this? As I start down this road how important is following the suggested picking fingers? I'm unaware of the larger traditions and want to learn correctly as much as possible (or at least as much as necessary).

 

[Larry U]

Since taking up the Uke in January, I have enjoyed strumming and jamming with friends etc. but I'm most interested in the Classical side of things too and I too, really appreciate this thread.
A question for those who might have worked through the Jeff Peterson Graded Repertoire book (or anyone, really)—I've started on the second exercise, the Study No. 1 (in F) by Fernando Sor. I'm trying to stay disciplined 'cuz this is new to me, learning about PIMA finger-picking and all that. In his written introduction to this piece, Jeff Peterson says to "be mindful of correct alteration of i and m". I'm working with that, even though sometimes his suggested fingers don't always match my instincts and it messes me up.
Then I looked up his video of this piece on You Tube, and I noticed he is even using different fingers for picking from how his book says to do it. Am I over-thinking this? As I start down this road how important is following the suggested picking fingers? I'm unaware of the larger traditions and want to learn correctly as much as possible (or at least as much as necessary).

Usually, I follow the suggested fingerings since the arranger probably knows a lot more about proper technique than I do. However, there are times when those "suggestions" just don't work for me and my aged fingers. Treat the fingering as suggestions, not rules. And like you mentioned, sometimes even the experts don't follow their own advice. As long as it works for you and you're making music, feel free to do your own thing, but try the suggestions first, as there are generally good reasons for them.

 

[engravertom]

Usually, I follow the suggested fingerings since the arranger probably knows a lot more about proper technique than I do. However, there are times when those "suggestions" just don't work for me and my aged fingers. Treat the fingering as suggestions, not rules. And like you mentioned, sometimes even the experts don't follow their own advice. As long as it works for you and you're making music, feel free to do your own thing, but try the suggestions first, as there are generally good reasons for them.

I think this is a great approach and attitude!

Classical technique is one of many paths. I think of technique as a servant, not a master, as I used to.

My own method is to have an approach in mind, but focus on learning the music first. I will use instinct a lot in this phase. Then, when I refine the piece, I will look at technique to see how I can refine my performance.

As Larry said, do what works for you!

Methods and schools of technique are a way to approach things that are repeatable and teachable, but are not perfect nor absolute.

Let them help you become a better version of yourself. Don’t let them force you into a mold that may not be exactly what you really need.

Unless your goal is to be a certain kind of technician. Nothing wrong with that.

The music and a way to make it that works for me is my goal.

 

[TBB]

The music and a way to make it that works for me is my goal.

This, a thousand times over!

I often start off trying to follow the suggested fingerings, but I generally find that as I get more familiar with a piece I’ll automatically start doing something different that feels more natural to me. This is particularly true with my fretting hand since I’m playing a soprano, I suspect a lot of the fingerings in the Peterson book have been chosen with the assumption that most people are playing longer scale lengths.

As for the right hand technique, I was wondering the other day what the thinking is behind suggesting PIMA as opposed to PPIM when picking. I can do both but I almost always revert to PPIM if I stop actively thinking about it, and as yet I’m not sure I see any great disadvantage in that. Maybe with certain techniques or pieces of music it’s more important?

 

[engravertom]

This, a thousand times over!

I often start off trying to follow the suggested fingerings, but I generally find that as I get more familiar with a piece I’ll automatically start doing something different that feels more natural to me. This is particularly true with my fretting hand since I’m playing a soprano, I suspect a lot of the fingerings in the Peterson book have been chosen with the assumption that most people are playing longer scale lengths.

As for the right hand technique, I was wondering the other day what the thinking is behind suggesting PIMA as opposed to PPIM when picking. I can do both but I almost always revert to PPIM if I stop actively thinking about it, and as yet I’m not sure I see any great disadvantage in that. Maybe with certain techniques or pieces of music it’s more important?

In some cases flamenco technique will use ppim. I think a lot of traditional techniques for the Uke and other instruments like the machete emphasize the thumb very prominently.

 

[engravertom]

Fernando Sor advised using the a finger very very rarely. If you get comfortable with pipi it can replace pima.

 

[TBB]

In some cases flamenco technique will use ppim. I think a lot of traditional techniques for the Uke and other instruments like the machete emphasize the thumb very prominently.

That’s interesting, PPIM definitely feels more natural to me. What made me think of it was Tárrega’s Estudio in F Major in the Classical Repertoire book, Peterson specifies PIMA for the right hand fingering and I can’t really work out why.

I’ve never tried PIPI, but that was our first dog’s name so I’m going to have to have a go at it now!

 

[ploverwing]

I've been trying to use the lute version rather than the classical guitar version of right hand fingering: p or m for the strong, i for the weak. It's tough because I don't necessarily intuitively know strong vs weak, but I'm getting there.

My point is to add that there are MANY different techniques. All valid. It's useful to work on things that don't come naturally or that feel uncomfortable because then you're training your muscles and brain to something different. Enjoy and good music making!

 

[TBB]

I've been trying to use the lute version rather than the classical guitar version of right hand fingering: p or m for the strong, i for the weak. It's tough because I don't necessarily intuitively know strong vs weak, but I'm getting there.

I had no idea that there was a different version for the lute and it’s never occurred to me to think of different fingers for weak and strong, but that makes perfect sense!

My point is to add that there are MANY different techniques. All valid. It's useful to work on things that don't come naturally or that feel uncomfortable because then you're training your muscles and brain to something different. Enjoy and good music making!

Very true, and you’re quite right about the benefits of working on things that don’t come so naturally. But I must admit that I’m often guilty of reverting to the easier and more familiar path, not least because I rarely feel that I have as much uninterrupted time as I’d like to concentrate on playing.

 

[Timm_S]

Wow, so much to learn, I had not yet heard of PPIM so this is another revelation to me. I guess I'm interested to learn the techniques of those who've gone before me. But much like piano literature, I don't follow those suggested fingerings all the time either. Just trying to learn the rules so I can break them later on... and I agree it seems important to learn the music first and let the technique work itself out later on.

 

[engravertom]

Some flamenco techniques are all p, with hammer ons and pull offs. Then you mix in the down stroke and upstroke aspects…

I use renaissance lute technique as my default. The M substitutes for the P when you are playing two notes at once.

Baroque lute technique is different.

 

[engravertom]

This is a classic. I have only worked through a little of it. You need 6 strings with the third tuned down half a step to play the pieces.

 

[about2]

I am struggling to 'like' the set of Living Waters I have on my baritone yet once I start playing they sound just fine.

Regarding experimenting where do you start? I know the sound I am looking for but have no idea how to set about finding it.
I am looking for wound G3 and C4 for 51 cm scale that will work with Living Waters trebles or failing that some other trebles.
I don't wish to spend a fortune on string sets or to split string sets.
The Early Music Shop sells lute strings as singles if you know the diameters.
Is there a spread sheet somewhere with string diameters, pitch, octave and scale length?

Hmmm…that spread sheet may exist, but my experience says it probably won’t capture the intangibles that make a string set nice. I look for a set that allow overtones to ring, provide the feel I’m looking for, the bass response I want from my bari, and the flexibility that work well with my old man hands. I don’t think a spread sheet can relay that level of info. For me, there was no short cut to experimentation.

I also hear you when you say you don’t want to split up a string set. It can get pricey. After trying many different sets and combo of sets, I’ve settled on the Galli fluorocarbons. I’ve tried them on 3 different baritones and they exceed my hopes on each of them.

Good luck with your search.

 

[Patty]

I don’t know if this belongs here. If the general consensus is that it doesn’t, I’ll happily remove it from the thread. I did this a few years back for a Season Of The Ukulele. For a bit of background info, I’m including what I wrote then as the introduction for it. Be patient, there is some ukulele in the mix, as you’ll see/hear.

Wow! Love this! Grieg would have gotten a big kick out of this, I’ll bet.

 

[Patty]

In his written introduction to this piece, Jeff Peterson says to "be mindful of correct alteration of i and m". I'm working with that, even though sometimes his suggested fingers don't always match my instincts and it messes me up.
Then I looked up his video of this piece on You Tube, and I noticed he is even using different fingers for picking from how his book says to do it. Am I over-thinking this? As I start down this road how important is following the suggested picking fingers? I'm unaware of the larger traditions and want to learn correctly as much as possible (or at least as much as necessary).

Usually, I follow the suggested fingerings since the arranger probably knows a lot more about proper technique than I do. However, there are times when those "suggestions" just don't work for me and my aged fingers. Treat the fingering as suggestions, not rules.

True! Jeff Peterson is a brilliant young professional with brilliant young hands. I’m an old amateur with arthritis and short fingers.

Somewhere in his book he writes (unless I imagined it) that the player may adopt different LEFT-hand fingerings if those suggested do not seem easy or natural. I’ve always started out following his advice, since he’s the expert. But I modify any left-hand fingerings that my hands just can’t manage.

I think we should assume the same is sometimes true for the right hand. The principal thing is not to rely on just the thumb and one finger for all occasions, but learn to alternate two fingers + thumb.

My own method is to have an approach in mind, but focus on learning the music first. I will use instinct a lot in this phase. Then, when I refine the piece, I will look at technique to see how I can refine my performance.

Yes!

I often start off trying to follow the suggested fingerings, but I generally find that as I get more familiar with a piece I’ll automatically start doing something different that feels more natural to me

Yes!

My point is to add that there are MANY different techniques. All valid.

Yes!

And remember—it’s YOU playing that ukulele with YOUR hands. If there’s a technique that you can’t manage, and you’ve found one that works for you, then that’s the correct one.

 

[Timm_S]

I guess I won’t get too hung up on it then. I feel it’s good exercise to work towards using the indicated fingerings, it’s probably good for developing hand independence on a new instrument. But I won’t beat myself up if I play i m instead of m i occasionally. Thanks for all the good feedback and ideas.

 

[ploverwing]

But I won’t beat myself up if I play i m instead of m i occasionally.

100% this.

ETA but as my teacher says, it's good to notice when you do one thing vs another, so you're building awareness, but not attachment or guilt. Ditto with mis-played notes.

 

[Camsuke]

Here's a Medievil Polka called "Bear Dance". I've added a couple of variations to the main theme to spice it up a bit for all you Lutaholics.
There's a link to the TAB in the video description at YT. Happy picking folks!