Problem with A string, or Peghed tuner - Help please!!

[TBB]

The Living Waters I’ve got on my Pohaku soprano have been on there for less than 2 months and they’ve been settled and fine for weeks. A couple of days ago the A string went very flat overnight and since then it hasn’t stayed in tune for longer than a few minutes. All the other strings are fine.

This is the first and only uke I’ve had with Pegheds, from what I gather you push them in to tighten them if they’re not holding. The tuning peg for the 1st string is pushed in as far as it will go, or certainly as far as I can push it in, and it doesn’t feel loose or sloppy at all.

Any ideas? Could a dodgy string be completely fine and then suddenly refuse to stay in tune? Or could it be the Peghed tuner?

I’d be very grateful for any help, this is driving me nuts!!

 

[mjh42]

Is the peg slipping? IF so try some peg dope. You should be able to get some at any music store that sells violins.

 

[TBB]

Is the peg slipping? IF so try some peg dope. You should be able to get some at any music store that sells violins.

Thanks @mjh42, they’re not actually old style friction pegs, they’re Peghed brand geared tuners. I’ll correct the spelling in my first post to help avoid any confusion.

 

[mjh42]

Thanks for the clarification. I have old style friction pegs on my Pohaku resonator.

I have the internally geared peg heads on my Magic Fluke. Pull out slightly--tune--push in. These internally geared peg heads can get damaged if not used properly. The peg for my C string is slightly damaged. Still works and holds but not as well as my other three strings. Someone else was tuning my MF and the damage was done before I could inform them of how the tuners worked.

If the one tuner is not holding you might have to reach out to Peter Hurney about a possible replacement peg or new set.

Or look here: https://www.pegheds.com/

Looks like MF has their pegheds made by Pegheds.

From the MF website:

The internal mechanism is designed to brake more fully when the pegs are lightly pressed in while rotating, and turn more freely while the peg head is gently pulled outwards. This allows adjustment of the friction and braking force. If the peg is jammed tight, it may require a good tug and possibly a drop of mineral spirits where the shaft enters the housing to help loosen it up. The string winding on the peg should not come in contact with the wood of the headstock as this will also jam the peg and prevent it from working properly.

Maybe a little gently pull outwards and a working of the peg will unjam a tight peg and get you back to working order???

 

[TBB]

This is great info, thank you very much! Peter Hurney sent a little slip of paper with basic instructions for the Pegheds with the uke, but I hadn’t realised you were supposed to pull them out slightly before tuning, rather like an old violin peg. I’ll try a bit of pulling outwards as you suggest and see how I get on.

 

[Kenn2018]

Don't forget to check the other end of the string. A strings, especially fluorocarbons, are very thin and can sometimes be slippery as well.
I have had the A string knot slip, even months after installing it. And, I've had the knot start to pull up and through the hole in a string-through bridge.

Is the string stretching uniformly? Lightly pinch it between your thumb and index finger and then run them up and down the string a few times. You should be able to notice if the the string gets fatter and thinner as you move along the string. I have had a very few fluoros that just don't stretch out like they are supposed to. With portions of the string stretching more than others. It's not common, but it can happen.

The A string seems to be more susceptible to changes in temperature and humidity. It can be a real barometer of high & low pressure as well.

 

[TerryM]

I have had the A string knot slip, even months after installing it. And, I've had the knot start to pull up and through the hole in a string-through bridge.

Ditto

And I have also had a Peghed that needed to be lightly but firmly pushed in while tuning. I haven't found them to be fragile at all and just treated the loose one like a tapered violin type peg by rotating back and forth while pressing in. It has only required that once. I hadn't heard/read to pull out on them when tuning and have just been turning the buttons as necessary.

 

[Ukecaster]

One time I may have gotten carried away when pulling out on a Peghed tuner button to loosen it, and the button popped right off in my hand! But, it went right back on without any issues.

 

[TBB]

I have had the A string knot slip, even months after installing it.

Ditto

Hadn’t even occurred to me that the knot might slip after several weeks! I’ll check it. I can’t feel any irregularities in the thickness of the string, but to be honest it’s such a thin string I’m not sure I’d actually be able to tell if they were there.

The A string seems to be more susceptible to changes in temperature and humidity. It can be a real barometer of high & low pressure as well.

My first thought was that it might be related to weather conditions, we’ve had some very warm and humid weather recently, but could that really just affect one string? I must admit I was kind of hoping that would be the answer, it’s a lot simpler than a dodgy Peghed and at least the UK weather can be relied upon to return to grey and miserable by august.

And I have also had a Peghed that needed to be lightly but firmly pushed in while tuning. I haven't found them to be fragile at all and just treated the loose one like a tapered violin type peg by rotating back and forth while pressing in. It has only required that once. I hadn't heard/read to pull out on them when tuning and have just been turning the buttons as necessary

Can you feel the Peghed moving in and out? I’ve tried pulling it out slightly as @mjh42 suggested, but I can’t feel any movement at all. It’s the same when I try to push it in. I had no idea that Pegheds operated any differently from UPTs to be honest, I assumed that once they were correctly up and running you just tuned the uke in the normal way.

One time I may have gotten carried away when pulling out on a Peghed tuner button to loosen it, and the button popped right off in my hand!

These little guys are so much more temperamental than I’d realised!

 

[Kenn2018]

They can be a bit fussy.

I have had PegHeds that I had to wiggle a bit to get the gears to mesh correctly when I pushed it in.

I pull the pegHed out to get the tuning close—in the neighborhood. Then i push it in and almost always, it will move away from where I had it. I then do finer tuning with it gently pushed in. Finally, I push firmly to make sure that it's fully seated. I then check if the string is still in tune. Frequently, it has gone slightly out and I fine tune it with very small movements of the peg.

It gets easier with practice, but they are not my favorite tuners.

I replaced the OEM PegHeds on My Martin 1T IZ with Gotoh UPTLs. I do have a couple of tenors still with the original PegHeds they came with.

The humidity, temp & pressure can affect a single string. But if your uke is strung High-g, then the equally thin g-string will be affected as much. The thicker E & C strings will also be affected, but to a smaller amount.

 

[Ukecaster]

I think the pushing/pulling part works better while turning the tuner button. If not already turning the button, it doesn't seem effective, to me.

 

[Mike $]

Have you looked at this video? It may help...or not. A string change would be a good idea before sending it out for repairs, if it is warranted. Good luck.

 

[TBB]

I pull the pegHed out to get the tuning close—in the neighborhood. Then i push it in and almost always, it will move away from where I had it. I then do finer tuning with it gently pushed in. Finally, I push firmly to make sure that it's fully seated.

I think the pushing/pulling part works better while turning the tuner button. If not already turning the button, it doesn't seem effective, to me.

Ok, I’m going to have another go at the pulling pushing thing, but I haven’t been able to detect any in or out movement in the peg at all on my previous attempts. Thanks again for your help, will keep you posted.. (you lucky people )

 

[TBB]

Have you looked at this video? It may help...or not. A string change would be a good idea before sending it out for repairs, if it is warranted. Good luck.

Brilliant, thank you! I’ll have to watch it later, but I’m pretty confident it’ll be helpful. I followed the instructions from Aaron’s video about fixing old Martin friction pegs and it was great, really clear.

Will definitely try a string change before anything more drastic, still kind of hoping it’ll all turn out to be weather related. A girl can dream.

 

[TerryM]

Hadn’t even occurred to me that the knot might slip after several weeks! I’ll check it. I can’t feel any irregularities in the thickness of the string, but to be honest it’s such a thin string I’m not sure I’d actually be able to tell if they were there.


My first thought was that it might be related to weather conditions, we’ve had some very warm and humid weather recently, but could that really just affect one string? I must admit I was kind of hoping that would be the answer, it’s a lot simpler than a dodgy Peghed and at least the UK weather can be relied upon to return to grey and miserable by august.


Can you feel the Peghed moving in and out? I’ve tried pulling it out slightly as @mjh42 suggested, but I can’t feel any movement at all. It’s the same when I try to push it in. I had no idea that Pegheds operated any differently from UPTs to be honest, I assumed that once they were correctly up and running you just tuned the uke in the normal way.


These little guys are so much more temperamental than I’d realised!

I don't feel the button moving in or out. I think if you apply a little inward pressure while turning the button back and forth you'll feel the movement get stiffer. I equate it to tightening the screw on friction tuners, or the effect that inward pressure would have on a tapered peg. Once I have the Peghed as stiff as I want it, it's set and forget. I've never had to pull out while turning.

I first encountered them on a Pohaku and that uke stayed in tune better than any I had at the time. My current Pohaku and another uke have them as well and they haven't been at all troublesome. You should contact Peter if the tuner gives you trouble.

 

[badhabits]

so those are still friction tuners? except you adjust the friction by pushing in to tighten instead of turning a screw?

 

[TerryM]

I haven't seen an exploded view of the innards, but they're planetary geared machines that evidently can be made easier or harder to turn either direction by applying force in or out. Like I said, they're set and forget for me.

The only thing I can recall reading, and I believe it was on the Peghed website, is that if you find they don't hold tune, apply a little force inward (toward the headstock) until they do. It was easy to feel for me, but I spent a few years maintaining the tapered tuning pegs on my wife's Celtic harp, so maybe the experience carried over.

Would love to know how they're put together but when doing minimal research, I didn't find a full explanation or a diagram.

 

[TBB]

I don't feel the button moving in or out. I think if you apply a little inward pressure while turning the button back and forth you'll feel the movement get stiffer. I equate it to tightening the screw on friction tuners, or the effect that inward pressure would have on a tapered peg. Once I have the Peghed as stiff as I want it, it's set and forget. I've never had to pull out while turning.

I first encountered them on a Pohaku and that uke stayed in tune better than any I had at the time. My current Pohaku and another uke have them as well and they haven't been at all troublesome. You should contact Peter if the tuner gives you trouble.

Ah, that makes sense, thanks Terry.

If the problem continues I’ll definitely contact Peter, but I’m inclined to think that if it’s caused by the Peghed (rather than the string) it’s more likely to be my incompetence than the tuner itself that’s the issue.

 

[Jerryc41]

The Living Waters I’ve got on my Pohaku soprano have been on there for less than 2 months and they’ve been settled and fine for weeks. A couple of days ago the A string went very flat overnight and since then it hasn’t stayed in tune for longer than a few minutes. All the other strings are fine.

This is the first and only uke I’ve had with Pegheds, from what I gather you push them in to tighten them if they’re not holding. The tuning peg for the 1st string is pushed in as far as it will go, or certainly as far as I can push it in, and it doesn’t feel loose or sloppy at all.

Any ideas? Could a dodgy string be completely fine and then suddenly refuse to stay in tune? Or could it be the Peghed tuner?

I’d be very grateful for any help, this is driving me nuts!!

Check the fastening of the string at the bridge. I've had some that slipped there, and I had to reattach them.

 

[TBB]

Check the fastening of the string at the bridge. I've had some that slipped there, and I had to reattach them.

Thanks Jerry. I’ve shone a torch into the hole in the bridge and I think I can see the knot, but maybe I need to unwind it from the top and check properly.