Effect of age of solid wood uke on its sound?

[hjdefoe]

Hi Gang! Can I get some information and insight about solid wood ukes: do they sound better with age? Seems like I’ve read about the wood, and thus the tone, “opening up” with time. I’m trying out a 2002 soprano Kamaka in mint condition. Years ago, I bought (and resold, foolishly) an older Kamaka soprano. Can’t remember if it was white or gold label. Anyway, it had a swell mellow tone which I attributed to the quality of the koa, and it’s workmanship. (Didn’t know anything about the effects of age on a uke…and still don’t!) You usually get what you pay for. This newer uke lacks that special tone. I think my 2 year old quilted maple Bruce Wei sounds better. Nothing wrong with the tone, mind you. Just nothing special that I’d expect from a Kamaka. Should I expect that with proper care, humidificarían etc, this 21 year old Kamaka will change much in tone? What are your thoughts? And thanks!

 

[Poul Hansen]

SEARCH, this subject has been ridden to death several times. To my knowledge it's never been proven scientifically.

 

[merlin666]

No there is no guarantee that uke properties will improve. You may or may not be able to hear the effects of aging and it may make the uke worse. The only thing you can do is to play it as much as you can and find out how to make it sound better. It probably needs different right hand approach than you are used to from the Wei.

 

[hjdefoe]

No there is no guarantee that uke properties will improve. You may or may not be able to hear the effects of aging and it may make the uke worse. The only thing you can do is to play it as much as you can and find out how to make it sound better. It probably needs different right hand approach than you are used to from the Wei.

Thanks, Merlin. Ill take that advice

 

[hjdefoe]

SEARCH, this subject has been ridden to death several times. To my knowledge it's never been proven scientifically.

I tried searching, Poul, but didn’t know what words to enter to find the info. Not the greatest at figuring out such things.

 

[oldjazznut]

Instrument wood is a crap shoot. A beautiful piece can sound so-so, and a plain piece can sound great. Thet still don't know why Stradivarius violins usually sound so good. Even he had a few duds.

I don't see that aging can do much but change moisture content, which should already be stable before the wood is used or it will shrink. Cutting it into the desired pieces exposes inner grain and dries the wood a little further. Some makers let the cut pieces dry longer.

Some solid ukes are probably not as good as years ago. Tone woods have to be stacked and air dried for as long as four years to reach their ideal state. With higher demand wood is being used earlier, some is partially kiln dried (like construction lumber!) to speed up the process.

 

[hjdefoe]

Instrument wood is a crap shoot. A beautiful piece can sound so-so, and a plain piece can sound great. Thet still don't know why Stradivarius violins usually sound so good. Even he had a few duds.

I don't see that aging can do much but change moisture content, which should already be stable before the wood is used or it will shrink. Cutting it into the desired pieces exposes inner grain and dries the wood a little further. Some makers let the cut pieces dry longer.

Some solid ukes are probably not as good as years ago. Tone woods have to be stacked and air dried for as long as four years to reach their ideal state. With higher demand wood is being used earlier, some is partially kiln dried (like construction lumber!) to speed up the process.

Thanks for the really interesting info - I appreciate it!

 

[hendulele]

Instrument wood is a crap shoot. A beautiful piece can sound so-so, and a plain piece can sound great. Thet still don't know why Stradivarius violins usually sound so good. Even he had a few duds.

I don't see that aging can do much but change moisture content, which should already be stable before the wood is used or it will shrink. Cutting it into the desired pieces exposes inner grain and dries the wood a little further. Some makers let the cut pieces dry longer.

Some solid ukes are probably not as good as years ago. Tone woods have to be stacked and air dried for as long as four years to reach their ideal state. With higher demand wood is being used earlier, some is partially kiln dried (like construction lumber!) to speed up the process.

All correct. Build methods (design, size, and placement of bracing, for instance, along with of the thickness of the top or the bridge plate) also make a difference.

 

[rainbow21]

Here is a relatively recent thread with opinions all over the place... (this is likely a good example whereby the strength of one's belief or skepticism likely does not make whether wood can "open up" more true or more false)

Do ukes really "open up" after a certain amount of playing? Laminates? Gloss solid woods?

Do wood instruments really change over time? Does further drying and aging of the wood cause changes in tone? Do gloss finishes inhibit this aging and "opening up"? I would assume the very nature of laminates would create a very stable tone over time. Further, are modern gloss finishes...

forum.ukuleleunderground.com

 

[man0a]

Aldrine has said repeatedly that he believes quality solid wood ukuleles do open up with age when played regularly. If your 20 year old "mint condition" Kamaka has been sitting in a box for 20 years, then the "opening up" process may not have begun yet.

 

[ploverwing]

I tried searching, Poul, but didn’t know what words to enter to find the info. Not the greatest at figuring out such things.

Plus our search tool is an improving work in progress, and isn't the easiest but it is better than it was. You can try "opening with age"?

 

[Plonky-tonk]

Instrument wood is a crap shoot. A beautiful piece can sound so-so, and a plain piece can sound great. Thet still don't know why Stradivarius violins usually sound so good. Even he had a few duds.

I don't see that aging can do much but change moisture content, which should already be stable before the wood is used or it will shrink. Cutting it into the desired pieces exposes inner grain and dries the wood a little further. Some makers let the cut pieces dry longer.

Some solid ukes are probably not as good as years ago. Tone woods have to be stacked and air dried for as long as four years to reach their ideal state. With higher demand wood is being used earlier, some is partially kiln dried (like construction lumber!) to speed up the process.

There is some thought that it was the chemicals the wood was treated with to kill woodworm. There was a big issue with woodworm at the time, so they were dousing wood items with anything they imagined could help.

The secret of the Stradivari violin confirmed

New research co-authored by a Texas A&M University scientist has confirmed that renowned violin maker Antonio Stradivari and others treated their instruments with chemicals that produced their unique sound, and several of these chemicals have been identified for the first time.

phys.org

Edit: This is a good one, too https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/secrets-of-the-stradivari/

 

[eternal tinkerer]

I'm convinced that tone does change with age. Though I also see possible the selection bias where the ukes and guitars that changed for the worse were lost and forgotten, and the ones that changed for the better were kept and cherished.

I think that 21yo Kamaka has had plenty of time to sound "good" to you. Pass on it and keep on looking out for a different one that does.

 

[Poul Hansen]

You can search for the silly expression "open up"

The bad thing though is, that if you wait 20 years for an instrument to "open up" your own hearing has deterioated in the mean time, so better buy a good sounding instrument today instead of 10 where you hope one of them will "open up" before your hearing gets too bad to hear it.

 

[ubulele]

Plus our search tool is an improving work in progress, and isn't the easiest but it is better than it was. You can try "opening with age"?

You can also use a Google (or other search engine) search, adding a site qualifier to limit the search to just the UU forum. With Google, add this in your search string:
site:forum.ukuleleunderground.com

 

[ghostrdr]

actually, more than opening up, I think strings will make a noticeable difference in sound. What strings did you have on before and what are on the 2002 now? Also, if the 2002 strings are old, just putting new strings on even if they are the same may dramatically change it.

 

[spongeuke]

My take is that the older, preWWII ukuleles were made for wood sources that no longer exist, such as real Honduras Mahogany. With other woods there wasn't an emphasis on curly, flamed, spalted, and such. The preferred wood was tight strait grained. This had fewer weak points, if dried properly. The last factor is that the instruments that lasted these many years were usually ones that had something the owner(s) liked and were treated accordingly. Opening up is usually associated with better playing. Practice Practice Practice

 

[Kenn2018]

How the ukulele has been stored for the last 20 years will have a bigger impact on the sound than the wood opening up. (I believe it does open up with age.) Was the uke kept in a humidity-controlled environment? Or in a closet in a tropical climate with high humidity? Are all the seams and edges tight. Any cracks in the wood? Is the neck straight and the frets tight and level? Do the tuners work smoothly? Is the bridge secure? Athe nut and saddle in good shape? Check the label for any signs of water exposure.

If the strings are old, especially if they are original, it's going to be hard to tell if the intonation is good.

A 21 year old Kamaka, if cared for, should be a lovely instrument.

The Kamaka family has a supply of Koa wood that they dry and age for, if I remember correctly, 7 years before they use it.

 

[KohanMike]

I've had a couple of custom solid wood ukes made by Bruce Wei, his tops tend to be little thicker. They had good tone, but not as much projection as I like. One a year later did seem to open up, more projection and sustain, the other seemed to do the same in about a month. He's making me another now, solid spalted maple, I asked if he could thin the wood a little more than he usually does to see if it helps with the resonance. He's said he normally does 1.9mm, but will do 1.7 for this one.

 

[70sSanO]

I’m in the camp that string tension and environment has more impact on an instrument than playing 100,000 C chords.

I don’t think a 20 year old Kamaka without any string tension will be impacted the same as one being stored for years under tension.

John