Satin Finish Neck Experiment on my KoAloha

Background

So, I was playing my new Sceptre today, after a long week at school/work. (Week before finals and at work, we're pounding out the details for an economic forecast for the state.) For pics and my awesome experiences with KoAloha, see this thread. Anyway, I was switching between the Sceptre and my Fender Thin Skin Telecaster (which I got used at a killer price) as I was sitting and watching 30Rock/TheOffice/Parks&Recreation/Scrubs and all of my shows on Hulu that I missed during the week. If you never heard of Fender Thin Skins, their claim to fame is a very thin nitro finish, and no polyurethane undercoat. So basically, they wear very quickly and very nicely. In fact, thanks to the previous owner, the neck on mine has worn to a very nice satin feel. And it is superbly comfortable, and very fast, not sticky at all. (I'm lazy, and having someone naturally wear the nitro finish on the neck for me is like getting the AK47 in MW2 without having to actually get to level 70, if you know what I mean.)

My Tele's neck reminded me of another sick ukulele that I played recently: Aldrine's Custom Kanilea. For those of you who haven't seen Aldrine's uke in person, his has Kanilea's UV finished body, but a "silk" finished neck. He said it was their UV finish sanded down to a satin feel. And let me tell you, that it is easily the most comfortable ukulele neck that I've ever played. Hands down.

Speaking of hands, I usually don't have sweaty palms, but sometimes when playing for extended periods of time, my hands do get a bit moist. And when I play with painted necks (think Les Paul) or non satin necks, especially the UV finished Kanilea necks, sometimes after a while, it starts to get slow because my hand starts to stick to the finish due to sweat. But I didn't have that problem with the Tele's satin neck, or Aldrine's uke (granted that I only played his for 20 min at the most...felt guilty after that and had to give it back.)

The Grand Idea

So in the middle of 30Rock, I thought that maybe a satin neck would be good on my Sceptre. Except, it comes stock with a gloss finished neck (not sure exactly what kind of finish they use). So using the magical powers of Google, I found that there were people on other forums using super fine steel wool to turn their gloss finished necks into satin, with many people NOT recommending it. So I thought about it, and thought about bothering Alan on Twitter (@KoAlohaUke). But it was midnight and I thought he'd be asleep (he actually wasn't and is tweeting as I'm writing this at 1:00am.)

See, I'm a get-er-done kind of guy. I don't really like to wait, when I've got a great idea. So, even though it was midnight, I wanted a satin neck ukulele immediately! And I did have extra fine steel wool which I had been using to clean frets on other instruments. So I got to work.

The Sacrificial KoAloha

Now, I realized that if I messed up the Sceptre's neck I'd be regretting it forever, since it's awesome-tastic and has my name engraved in it. So I needed to test the steel wool method on another uke first, before I used it on my Sceptre. And I wanted to do it on the same finish that KoAloha uses. So I decided that my KoAloha SuperConcert would have to take one for the team.

I started with light strokes along the grain, in a small area on the lower side of the neck, around the 12th fret, just to see how it looked and felt. I could see that it was taking off some of the finish, because there was a white powdery residue on the steel wool pad. But it wasn't working fast enough, so I used more power, but was still relatively gentle, like rubbing aloe on a sunburn, rather than trying to fruitlessly erase a permanent marker on a whiteboard. This worked very well, and more of the finish came off, until it lost its gloss, and had a satin appearance.

I was satisfied with the slick feel, so I went and did it to the whole neck, and the side of the fretboard, and even the heel (is that what you call it?) of the neck. I didn't strip it to bare wood, but took off enough so that it had a satin feel and was no longer glossy. Then I had to go over it again because I missed spots. When I went for the double check, the way I found the remaining gloss was by running my finger down the neck and seeing where my finger got caught. Then I'd scrub out the remaining gloss in those spots.

I haven't played the new superconcert satin neck for very long, but can say that I think it does feel better with my DIY satin neck. It's much slicker, and faster.

But I decided that, since I'm sleepy now, I won't do it to my Sceptre before asking Paul which the best way to go about making the neck have a satin-feel is, or if I should even do it at all/if it was a mistake to do it to my super concert.

Any thoughts on satin necks vs gloss finished?
Have you guys ever played a satin neck uke? Which ones?
Did I permanently damage my KoAloha?
Does KoAloha offer a satin neck?

Sleep time.

I'm only just 2 months into playing, so not into different finishes yet, just trying to play the thing, BUT, reading your post I had a thought. I work in the car detailing business and to very very finely sand away fine blemishes on a car's clearcoat lacquer we use 3000 grade grit paper. Designed to be used wet (although you can use it dry) this 3000 grade is the finest, not like sandpaper at all, it's almost as smooth as a sheet of writing paper, very gentle.

Maybe this would be a good sanding application, it's way more gentle than 00 grade wire wool (the finest grade).

experimentjon.
I'm sure Paul would be the one to get a definitive answer to your question because he knows what kind of finish your uke has. However, as a custom cabinet and furniture maker, maybe I can add some insight.

First of all, 0000 steel wool is a finer cutting steel wool than 00 and is readilly available. You should definately use it "wet", but not with water. Water will cause any remaining steel wool fibers that you might not see to rust and could leave stains in the finish on your uke. We use a solution of boiled linseed oil cut with mineral spirits 4 to 1. 4 parts mineral spirits. Make sure that you soak any rags you use in water and then lay them out flat to dry before you dispose of them. Otherwise they can spontaneously combust (catch fire). It is important to use a lubricant when working on fine finishes to keep heat from building up when you're "rubbing" and sand/rub with the grain to conceal the very fine "scrathes" you'll be leaving on you uke. Hope this helps you out.

By the way, absolutely beautiful instruments! I'm hoping that someday I will own a scepter or PS.

"experiment"jon. You are a brave soul indeed! I guess the worst thing that could have happened would be refinish by Paul. I guess you really put the experiment into our name!

I like your idea. I have played Aldrinne's Kanilea and it is smooth as silk behind the neck. I didn't know how that was accomplished until you noted the light sanding.

I also find that my fingers stick a little to the fretboard itself. It could be because the PS and Sceptre were newer, with little play, when I purchased them and the gloss Koa fretboard has to wear down a little. I haven't had the issue with unfinished Rosewood fretboards.

The scary part is that I also have 0000 steel wool for polishing my frets and you've implanted an idea in my mind!

dkcrown said:

By the way, absolutely beautiful instruments! I'm hoping that someday I will own a scepter or PS.

Click to expand...

dkcrown, what's with the "OR?" Don't you mean "AND?"

Ronnie Aloha said:

dkcrown, what's with the "OR?" Don't you mean "AND?"

Click to expand...

LOL Ronnie. I think I would have to start buying lottery tix to be able to afford both. Although I guess that, unlike experimentjon, you don't have to buy the both of them at the same time.

If you can use a KoAloha Superconcert as a sacrificial lamb, you have way too much money.

Nah, I'm poor and I tried the same thing on an American Telecaster a few years back. Worked out fine! The original finish was cracking and flaking all over the place so I just took the strings off and scrubbed it down until it felt like a satin finish. I like it better this way. Sticky necks are no fun at all.

And I work exactly the same way as you do: completely on impulse. I decided to make side dots on my Flea at around 1:15 in the morning. Wait until daylight? NO WAY!

0000 steel wool moistened with lemon oil or orange oil has been used to remove the shine from high gloss rifle stocks for decades and 0000 is so fine you run very little risk of actually going through the finish. Just use light pressure and check often making sure to keep the steel wool moist with oil. This works great for cleaning up fretboards too.

You know I never noticed the KoAloha finish maybe it's cuz I have a Soprano and don't move up/down the neck much.

This is the reason I bought a Squier Strat over a "Fender" Strat!!!!

I figured if I'm going to be changing the pick ups anyway I might as well get the neck finish I like... I just can't do that sticky gloss finish that comes on the "Fenders" I can afford....

I just woke up and got a chance to play the satin tenor scale KoAloha neck next to the still glossy Sceptre and PS neck. I just want to make a few general comments on the necks that I forgot to say last night.

First of all, my Superconcert was made in Nov 2007 (stamped inside neck joint), whereas my PS and Sceptre were made recently. I know that my Sceptre was just finished a week ago. But I also noticed for the first time that my Sceptre and PS don't have dates stamped inside their bodies.

I'm 90% confident (hah statistics terms) that the gloss finish on my superconcert was either thicker or stickier than on my Sceptre or PS. Yes, I rejected the null hypothesis that their neck finish was the same by playing them and generating a p-value less than 10%.

Anyway, another thing is that not all KoAloha necks are the same. I don't have my supersoprano with me, since it's in the shop being set up, and can't remember what it feels like, but I can tell you that the superconcert neck I have is thinner than my Pineapple Sunday neck, which in turn feels slightly thinner than my Sceptre neck. I brought out the calipers and measuerd how fat the necks were at the 3rd fret, and they were all different. I guess this is because they shape their necks by hand, according to their website, so you are going to get some different necks.

In fact, you'll notice that most necks either have a constant thickness, or have a taper, and they grow thicker as you move towards the body. I'd say that my superconcert has a constant thickness all the way down. But I'm 95% confident that my sceptre has a reverse taper, and actually goes from thicker near the nut to thinner at the body. And just to make sure I'm not imagining it, I measured, and it's about 0.8mm thicker at the nut.

Also, something cool about the PS fretboard is that it's got a satin finish on it. Now, only if they could put that on the whole neck...unless there is a good reason why they don't.

glad I'm not one of your first-born children

First off, I have to erase you for giving away our trade secrets. The .8mm difference is supposed to be under lock and key...

Actually, you're right. Although our necks are rough shaped on a CNC, the final shape and thickness are done by hand. While they're all perfectly profiled out of the box, they have to be matched up to completely hand made bodies and fret boards. We do try to do it as consistently as possible, but there are differences.

Same goes for the finish. I set up a standard spray procedure, but the thickness of application is ultimately determined by the spray man. A quarter second difference in stroke will make a difference in wet and dried finish thickness.

Good job with the satinification. Here's another way to do it, although it's more time consuming than the steel wool method. Good for people who like getting dusty and have too much time on their hands. Take down the finish in steps - 600, 1,000, then 2,000 grit sand papers. They shouldn't be too hard to find at most automotive stores that sell paint. You can do a wet or dry sand. I prefer dry, because I can blast the dust away carelessly in the shop, and I hate wet sanding. It gets messy and feels like you're finger painting with chalk.

I do this to all the custom ukes before I buff them out and they end up having a beautiful satin sheen. Sometimes I skip out on the 2,000 grit. While it adds buffing time, the sanding time is cut down by 1/3.

This is great news, though. If you ever order a custom from us, you can sand down your own uke. Ha ha!

Phew, well that's a relief that I did it in an okay way. I'll probably play the superconcert more to see if I really like it before I do the same neck job on my Sceptre, which is now back in th KoAloha shop for a pickup install. Pineapple Sunday too, which actually needed its action raised (shocker, since most of the KoAlohas I've encountered which needed an action adjustment needed an action lowering.) And if I do do it on my sceptre, I'll probably go with the sandpaper method (dry) unless such fine sandpaper is too hard to find. (I have little faith in our auto shops. It was ridiculous trying to find a bottle of Meguiars Scratch X for my guitar...turns out all I had to do was go to Don Quijote which has a ridiculous car care selection.)

While I was at the KoAloha, I also checked out their pikake satin finished models. I liked that satin neck feel. Brian also said that they are louder right out of the box since they have that thinner finish (think Kanilea SoundMonster.)

I suspect that as Aldrine's satin neck becomes more well known for its awesome feel, the satin finished neck will be the next in thing to have, like the slotted headstock.

If you want some sand paper, let me know next time you come by the shop. I'll give you a couple of pads to make it easier. The only thing you'll need to buy is some 3M spray adhesive. Use it to tack the sand paper to the sanding pads and you'll save some considerable time.

koalohapaul said:

If you want some sand paper, let me know next time you come by the shop. I'll give you a couple of pads to make it easier. The only thing you'll need to buy is some 3M spray adhesive. Use it to tack the sand paper to the sanding pads and you'll save some considerable time.

Click to expand...

Woah, that'd be awesome. Let me buy you a plate lunch or something.

Brian said that he'd have Dustin finish my pickup installs sometime soon. But I'll probably make my way over there sometime during my winter break, once they're done with my stuff.

Custom grade DIY satin necks here I come.

experimentjon said:

Woah, that'd be awesome. Let me buy you a plate lunch or something.

Brian said that he'd have Dustin finish my pickup installs sometime soon. But I'll probably make my way over there sometime during my winter break, once they're done with my stuff.

Custom grade DIY satin necks here I come.

Click to expand...

What kind of pickup are you installing?

Ronnie Aloha said:

What kind of pickup are you installing?

Click to expand...

Fishman Matrix Infinity in both the PS and Sceptre. Kaneohe_Til_The_End said they're the easiest to install, so I just chose those. And Aldrine and Jake like them, so eh, why not?