Beginner Ukes + Intonation = Big Deal?

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blender

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I admit I'm a noob, less than a year of playing (and this is my first string instrument). My question is, does a uke's intonation (as I understand it) *really* matter that much to us picking up the basics? Intonation seems to be an issue for many first-time uke purchases.

AFAIK "intonation" really kicks in when you start working up the fretboard? Am I wrong here?

I'm still playing up near the top of the fretboard (mostly chords, starting to finger pick). I doubt I'll be challenging Jake to a pick-off any time soon.... ;)
 
How big of an issue it is depends on how critical your ear is. Some pretty advanced Players have poor intonation (here I'm talking of Violin or Wind instrument players) whereas some beginners can hear that the note is off even though they can hardly play. For a player relatively new to the Uke it is important to get the 4 strings in tune. The limitations of the instrument will become more apparent as you advance up the fretboard. If it has obvious intonation problems on the first 4 or 5 frets it's probably a very poor instrument and you will quickly tire of it. I think what you are calling the top of the fretboard is actually the bottom. In short, if it sounds wrong to you seek an experienced second opinion.
A trained ear is also a useful skill- something that pretty much anyone can do. I've nothing against electronic tuners but I do believe that you should be able to tune the 6 strings of a guitar (or 4 of a Uke).
No fretted instrument really plays in tune (actually a lot of instruments don't). It's all a compromise but thankfully for most of us they are good enough.
 
Poor intonation is not just an up-the-fretboard problem; it can and often will make one or more chords sound out of tune even when your electronic tuner tells you all the strings are in tune. I think even an untrained ear can hear the difference, and I suspect it's the reason some who have never played an instrument before become discouraged.

This does not mean that beginner ukes should be avoided, though. I'm new to this arena, but as I understand it, many are perfectly cromulent instruments that may just need some simple adjustments. The shops that inspect and set up their ukes are especially helpful in this regard.
 
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Michael N. said:
A trained ear is also a useful skill- something that pretty much anyone can do. I've nothing against electronic tuners but I do believe that you should be able to tune the 6 strings of a guitar (or 4 of a Uke).
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Agreed. Tuning by ear is an excellent exercise, and it allows you to tune wherever, whenever.

No fretted instrument really plays in tune (actually a lot of instruments don't).
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Well, yes and no. This gets into an esoteric area of music theory, but fretted instruments employ tempered tuning which is not quite accurate mathematically, but it is necessary for instruments with fixed notes. It is a compromise, but it's only out of tune in the strictest sense, and it does not excuse instruments with poor intonation.
 
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To get satisfaction from your playing, the ukulele must sound good. If the intonation is off at the 3rd fret (I discovered that on one of my entry level ukes), it may make you think you are a lousy player. For beginners, I think intonation must be pretty good up the the 5th fret. Even if you can't tell the difference, your audience might, and that will affect their enjoyment of your performance.

–Lori
 
Many inexpensive ukes suffer their worst intonation at the first couple of frets - this is simply because the nut is too high so the strings pull sharp when fretted there. It's fairly easy to fix, but takes a little time, and that's why most inexpensive ukes come from the factory with the nut too high. They just stick a pre-slotted piece of plastic on the uke and no human being ever actually does the final adjustment to bring the instrument in tune. This is true well up into the "upper middle" price range of most uke brands (guitars, too, for that matter).

That's why it is actually more important to buy from a real uke dealer who sets them up before shipping them (Mim, Uke Republic, etc.) when you're buying a cheap uke than an expensive one. A luthier-built uke or a "K-brand" Hawaiian uke you can count on being set up pretty darn well - it's the rest of the field that really need a human touch.

I've found that correct intonation is very, very important for player development. I played guitar for many years and my ear never really improved until I bought nut files and started setting my instruments up perfectly. After two years of playing nothing but "perfect" instruments I pulled one of my old guitars out of the case - once my favorite and "best" guitar, and was so distracted by the intonation being a few cents off at the first fret that I couldn't stand to play it!

John
 
You know, at the heart, you could likely learn the basics of finger position and chord progressions by using four rubber bands and a ruler.

You see where I'm going with this, right? The others have said it pretty well. An 'ukulele with a good sound, true intonation, and quality construction won't help you learn, but it will make learning more enjoyable, which in turn makes it easier.

The best advice I ever got when considering what uke to buy was this: Find a budget that you are able to live with, then buy an instrument that is just slightly more expensive. The better instrument you get, the more it will grow with you and visa versa.
 
Thanks for all the advice folks! As usual, I learn a lot here....

I should add, I started with a Kala KA-C as my 1st (starter) uke. I had some extra cash so I picked up an off-the-shelf Boat Paddle model M; that does sound "better" to me and is easier to play.
 
I have setup at least 6 Makala's and everyone of them has been great for intonation, and I am realllllllyyyy picky about intonation. None of them was more than $60.
 
blender said:
Thanks for all the advice folks! As usual, I learn a lot here....

I should add, I started with a Kala KA-C as my 1st (starter) uke. I had some extra cash so I picked up an off-the-shelf Boat Paddle model M; that does sound "better" to me and is easier to play.
Click to expand...

Jerry's uke are incredible for great intonation.
 
PoiDog said:
You know, at the heart, you could likely learn the basics of finger position and chord progressions by using four rubber bands and a ruler.

You see where I'm going with this, right? The others have said it pretty well. An 'ukulele with a good sound, true intonation, and quality construction won't help you learn, but it will make learning more enjoyable, which in turn makes it easier.

The best advice I ever got when considering what uke to buy was this: Find a budget that you are able to live with, then buy an instrument that is just slightly more expensive. The better instrument you get, the more it will grow with you and visa versa.
Click to expand...

I play some instruments other than uke. I think intonation is very important. Many non-musicians can tell if a note is not in tune--and it's a distraction. If you can have an inexpensive uke that plays in tune, that's fine. Personally, I don't think that it's good to learn on an instrument that's out of tune. Your mind will get the habit of listening to a certain sound for a certain note. If that's out of tune, then that's the sound your mind will retain. If the uke is your only instrument, playing in tune is even more important, IMO. I'm a beginner on uke and I use an electric tuner (A = 440). When I'm satisfied that my mind will retain the correct pitches for GCEA, I'll start tuning by ear. FWIW Sadly, I do hear some instruments out of tune on commercially done cds. No, I do not have perfect pitch....wish I did though.;)
 
Shastastan said:
No, I do not have perfect pitch....wish I did though.;)
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Be careful what you wish for - I have a blind friend with perfect pitch - relative and absolute. He's not able to enjoy a lot of music (I'm talking big-name professionally recorded stuff) because the "pitchiness" drives him nuts.

John
 
The way I see it? If you are starting out with a new instrument, you have enough challenges ahead in just learning the thing without the actual instrument fighting against you with something that is unnecessary.

In many cases, intonation can be sorted with a setup. If it can't be sensibly fixed (ie misplaced bridge, frets, wonky neck) then it's never going to sound good. If you make the decision you want to play, why learn on something that sounds bad?

Buy from a real shop type dealer and ask them to set it up properly!
 
Shastastan said:
I play some instruments other than uke. I think intonation is very important. Many non-musicians can tell if a note is not in tune--and it's a distraction. If you can have an inexpensive uke that plays in tune, that's fine. Personally, I don't think that it's good to learn on an instrument that's out of tune. Your mind will get the habit of listening to a certain sound for a certain note. If that's out of tune, then that's the sound your mind will retain. If the uke is your only instrument, playing in tune is even more important, IMO. I'm a beginner on uke and I use an electric tuner (A = 440). When I'm satisfied that my mind will retain the correct pitches for GCEA, I'll start tuning by ear. FWIW Sadly, I do hear some instruments out of tune on commercially done cds. No, I do not have perfect pitch....wish I did though.;)
Click to expand...

I think maybe my original post was misunderstood, and that's probably because I was trying to be too cute. What I meant to say was that technically one could learn chord positions etc on anything with four strings and 14 frets, because the mechanics are the same. Hpowever, just because one can do that doesn't mean one should, and I actually did advocate for buying the best instrument one could afford when I said: "The best advice I ever got when considering what uke to buy was this: Find a budget that you are able to live with, then buy an instrument that is just slightly more expensive. The better instrument you get, the more it will grow with you and visa versa."

In short, we were saying the same thing, though, perhaps I said it somewhat clumsily.
 
I look at it a bit different. Buy an instrument in your budget, BUT better to go a little less on the instrument and spend the savings on a good set up. Good strings too. A cheap instrument with good strings and a good set up will sound better than an expensive instrument with poor strings and a bad set up, or no set up at all.
 
gtrk said:
I look at it a bit different. Buy an instrument in your budget, BUT better to go a little less on the instrument and spend the savings on a good set up. Good strings too. A cheap instrument with good strings and a good set up will sound better than an expensive instrument with poor strings and a bad set up, or no set up at all.
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I think I agree with what you meant to say :) but I can only agree with what you said to a point. It depends on what one considers an "expensive instrument." If you're talking Hawaiian made "K brands" and up (luthier built) then you will probably never see a really bad set up. I consider KoAloha factory actions a little high for my tastes at the bridge end but even so there is no way I would call them a poor setup. The nut is perfect and the action at the bridge end isn't high enough to be problematic and is, in fact, what a lot of pickers seem to prefer.

If you're talking about Chinese factory instruments then you are 100% correct - better to go with a mid-priced one well set up than a more expensive one poorly set up. That's why I recommend buying from Mim, Uke Republic, etc. (Or buy a Mainland if you're getting up into that price range :) ) When MGM was in business he used to set up Dolphins before he shipped them! I have the tools and know how to do my own setups and still I bought my granddaughter's little LU-11 from MGM because if he was willing to do his great setup on that inexpensive of a uke I was more than willing to let him!
 
When the instrument is actually in tune with itself it resonates better and sounds fuller. With the re entrant tuning, there are often notes doubled in the chords. If they don't sound the same it is dreadful.

Perfect pitch is not necessary, but really good relative pitch is good and can be developed.
 
I love KoAloha but I wouldn't classify them as luthiers. FWIW I reserve that category for a few other Hawaiian uke builders. I'm sure you have strong opinions on that but I apprenticed as a luthier and got an eye full as to what that designation really means. I am not sure how to classify Kamaka and KoAloha. They are not factories like the Chinese makers but not what I would call a luthier built instrument.

OldePhart said:
I think I agree with what you meant to say :) but I can only agree with what you said to a point. It depends on what one considers an "expensive instrument." If you're talking Hawaiian made "K brands" and up (luthier built) then you will probably never see a really bad set up. I consider KoAloha factory actions a little high for my tastes at the bridge end but even so there is no way I would call them a poor setup. The nut is perfect and the action at the bridge end isn't high enough to be problematic and is, in fact, what a lot of pickers seem to prefer.

If you're talking about Chinese factory instruments then you are 100% correct - better to go with a mid-priced one well set up than a more expensive one poorly set up. That's why I recommend buying from Mim, Uke Republic, etc. (Or buy a Mainland if you're getting up into that price range :) ) When MGM was in business he used to set up Dolphins before he shipped them! I have the tools and know how to do my own setups and still I bought my granddaughter's little LU-11 from MGM because if he was willing to do his great setup on that inexpensive of a uke I was more than willing to let him!
Click to expand...
 
Once again thanks for all the comments!
My problem with determining "intonation" is that I suffer from tinnitus, I can tell when a chord is really off but the 'little pieces" of the sound I miss.

Steve
 
Blender - EDW's comment is an important one too, re the relativity of strings in tune with themselves.

With bad intonation, certain chords will cause strings to play in a disharmonious way with each other. Doesn't need perfect pitch to spot it - the signature sound is kind of a shrill wobbly jarring note - at least it is to my ears.
 
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