"Peak Timber" more bad news

[ukulian]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-16682177

 

[wolfybau]

egads

things keep getting worse and worse for this planet. its frightening the rate we are destroying it with no end in sight. how much more cna mother earth take before she has fallen down and cant get up

 

[Colonel Uke]

I can't speak to the timber industry in the tropics, I'm sure it's not as regulated as it is here, but at least in the US, the timber industry plants more trees each year than any other industry or organization. They replant far more than they harvest.

 

[Rick Turner]

I'll bet that 90% of what gets made with all that tropical timber winds up as landfill within 10 years...to say nothing of the incredible waste in sawing practices. We instrument makers are NOT the problem unless you include all the cheap factory crap below about $300.00 for guitars and $100.00 for ukes. And it's not all 3rd World for bad timber harvesting practices. What's been going on in Tasmania should be internationally illegal. Nice white folks democracy there, too... Just bought and paid for politicians like anywhere else.

 

[bluesuke]

I'll bet that 90% of what gets made with all that tropical timber winds up as landfill within 10 years...to say nothing of the incredible waste in sawing practices. We instrument makers are NOT the problem unless you include all the cheap factory crap below about $300.00 for guitars and $100.00 for ukes. And it's not all 3rd World for bad timber harvesting practices. What's been going on in Tasmania should be internationally illegal. Nice white folks democracy there, too... Just bought and paid for politicians like anywhere else.

Well said! Welcome back Rick

 

[mrhandy]

I volunteer with this company here in Tampa/ St Pete. Most of the wood I work with for the last year has been saved from the landfill.
http://viablelumber.com/
The biggest problem with trying to start this type of business is the resistance from arborist's to be told how to take a tree down, and them the local government that simply don't care.

 

[thistle3585]

Andrew,
Does your organization take trees down and mill them or coordinate that process? I've often thought about doing something like this as either a for profit or non profit. My biggest concern would be the associated costs with milling trees that have hatdware in them as well as how does your lumber affect the local lumber dealers? I'd love to chat with you sometime about this.

 

[ukulian]

The biggest problem with trying to start this type of business is the resistance from arborist's to be told how to take a tree down, .

Got to agree with that.
In my local catchment area there are effectively three tree surgeons, all of whom cut the trees into firewood length logs, both for ease of handling as well as ease of conversion into firewood! These lengths are almost unusable, even for Ukes.
Getting them to cut longer lengths from decent straight logs is indeed alien to them. I've convinced them to cut certain species at usable lengths, but they are the less common fells. It is not exactly telling them how to do their job, far be it for me to do that, but it only makes their efforts slightly more difficult.

 

[lauri girouard]

I just received my winter issue of guitar maker magazine. With that, they included a separate full transcript of a workshop at the 2011 ASIA symposium. It goes into great detail about the LACEY Act. I am more confused than ever at this point!! Did anyone else read it yet or better yet, attend the workshop?

 

[Moore Bettah Ukuleles]

This may help. Posted on the OLF a few days ago:

There are four agencies involved, folks: US Customs and Border Control, Homeland Security, USDA-APHIS (Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service), and US Fish and Wildlife Service. All have a hand in it. APHIS is concerned with Lacey issues and CITES, and USFWS primarily deals with shell, but they also have a hand in CITES.

You should know that in the long run its more efficient/cheaper if you import/export, to obtain a USFWS import/export license than it is to individually permit each shipment. It takes 60-90 days to process either a permit application or a license. The license is $100, and the permits went up to $93/shipment for 2012. The difference is that with the license, you don't have to wait to ship. You fill out the 3-177, write the check, and include it in your shipment. If you only apply for the permit, you have to file your permit application and wait the 60-90 days for it to be processed, and you have to do so for each and every shipment. For those of you up north, I highly recommend the use of a broker, in addition to getting your license. Even with all the associated licenses and brokerages, know that a shipment from Montreal to the US via FedEx will take only a day or two to get to Memphis, but will take another five days to get processed before being sent to its final destination.

For APHIS you need to file a PPQ505, http://www.aphis.usda.gov/plant_health/lacey_act/downloads/declarationform.pdf.

For USFWS you need to file a 3-177 listing all species of animal material, by weight. You cannot make your own appendix, they want you to use theirs. You need to have the approximate gross gram weight of any animal material on the guitar, except domestic animal bone like cow or camel.

Other imports may require other associated documentation.

Here are some scenarios presented by USFWS at the ASIA Symposium last June:

Import/Export Scenarios What are the requirements?

Non-commercial import/export
• Hand-carried, with no protected species material involved
– Have a nice day!!
• Shipped, with no protected species material involved but with some wildlife material (mother of pearl)
– No Lacey Act declaration;
– Fish and Wildlife declaration.



Non-commercial import/export
• Import/export of protected plant and/or animal species material (Brazilian rosewood and hawksbill sea turtle shell)
– CITES and/or ESA permit/certificate required • Only allowed if all conditions met
– Fish and Wildlife declaration – No Lacey Act declaration


Commercial import/export
• Import of non-protected plant species material (no wildlife)
– Lacey Act declaration
• Import of non-protected wildlife species
material (no plant)
– Fish and Wildlife declaration
– Fish and Wildlife import/export license


Commercial import/export
• Export of non-protected plant species material (no wildlife)
– Have a nice day!
• Export of non-protected wildlife species
material
– Fish and Wildlife declaration form
– Fish and Wildlife import/export license


Commercial import/export
• Commercial import of protected plant and animal species material (Brazilian rosewood and hawksbill sea turtle shell)
– Lacey Act declaration
– Fish and Wildlife declaration
– Fish and Wildlife import/export license – USDA Protected Plant permit
– CITES and/or ESA permit/certificate


Commercial import/export
• Commercial export of protected plant and wildlife species material
– Fish and Wildlife declaration
– Fish and Wildlife import/export license – CITES and/or ESA permit/certificate

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/plant_health/lacey_act/index.shtml

http://www.fws.gov/le/ImpExp/Info_Importers_Exporters.htm

http://www.fws.gov/permits/ImportExport/ImportExport.html

 

[Paul December]

I'll bet that 90% of what gets made with all that tropical timber winds up as landfill within 10 years...to say nothing of the incredible waste in sawing practices. We instrument makers are NOT the problem unless you include all the cheap factory crap below about $300.00 for guitars and $100.00 for ukes. And it's not all 3rd World for bad timber harvesting practices. What's been going on in Tasmania should be internationally illegal. Nice white folks democracy there, too... Just bought and paid for politicians like anywhere else.

Sub $100 Ukes are actually made of wood?!

 

[lauri girouard]

Chuck thank you for posting that.

I need a guide to figure out the acronyms. Recently I watched video clip of a movie that was talking about how America loves acronyms and it was pretty funny... (oh I mean LOL). I worked for a large corporate company and would be in meetings writing down notes to look up the ones thrown around in meetings so I can confirm this as true.

Having four US agencies govt involved. All have a hand in it..... OH goodness



wolfybau, I agree.

 

[mrhandy]

Andrew,
Does your organization take trees down and mill them or coordinate that process? I've often thought about doing something like this as either a for profit or non profit. My biggest concern would be the associated costs with milling trees that have hatdware in them as well as how does your lumber affect the local lumber dealers? I'd love to chat with you sometime about this.

we work with one tree cutter/hauler in particular, and we work with homeowners who want to donate their trees to us, this gives us the ability to tell the tree cutter how to cut the tree, and it also means they dont have to pay to haul and dispose of the majority of the tree... once they understand that they are more likely to work with us, but more often then not they don't care and just cut the tree up unless we are on site.
as you seem to know, finidng all sorts of foreign materials in the wood is comon, but you learn to identify which trees are high risk... ideal spot for a yard sale sign, perfect tree for a tree house and so on. a metal detector is a very helpful tool, but your eyes can spot a lot.

Got to agree with that.
In my local catchment area there are effectively three tree surgeons, all of whom cut the trees into firewood length logs, both for ease of handling as well as ease of conversion into firewood! These lengths are almost unusable, even for Ukes.
Getting them to cut longer lengths from decent straight logs is indeed alien to them. I've convinced them to cut certain species at usable lengths, but they are the less common fells. It is not exactly telling them how to do their job, far be it for me to do that, but it only makes their efforts slightly more difficult.

If you can accept wood on a large enough scale it ends up being a lot less work for the cutters, but for some reason they don't see that you are paying them by saving them time and money, and they expect to be paid for the wood, because they think it has a high dolor value which it really does not when you include hauling, milling, drying, storage, and marketing costs. many cutters dont care because in short its not saving them money, its saving their bos money, and secondly they just dont care... it does seem that if you show them products made from the trees they cut, they start to see the bigger picture, but its a long road.

Cutting the wood is the easy part. many think that if they cut it people will buy it. not true.

 

[Colonel Uke]

Unreal what used to done with wood. I've still got a few 4"X4" posts each about 4'-6' feet long that my Dad salvaged from cargo ships in the Port of Long Beach CA in the 1950's. They were being used as ballast in the bottom of the ships coming from China and then just thrown away at the port. They're solid rosewood!

 

[Rick Turner]

I may decide to drop out of going to the Montreal Guitar Festival because of this crap.

Where do I sign up to become a Tea Party member?

What a bunch of horse pucky...