johnson430
Well-known member
Last edited:
Should you trust a ukulele review?
- Thread starter JustinJ
- Start date
Is there 'group think'? I believe so. It's sometimes referred to as herd mentality or , less pejoratively, the zeitgeist. But the thing is is that there is not just one 'group think' on this forum. That's what makes this place so interesting.
I can illustrate this by referring to the great love for the K brands on this forum. Do they sound great? Yes. Do they play great? Yes.
Would I ever buy one? No.
I can illustrate this by referring to the great love for the K brands on this forum. Do they sound great? Yes. Do they play great? Yes.
Would I ever buy one? No.
Last edited:
buddhuu
Super Moderator (Retired)
Ah, reviews!
If we were talking about reviews on websites such as Amazon, IMDB, Review Centre, Trip Advisor or Trustpilot I would literally LOL at the concept of trust. Forums of that kind are saturated with bogus reviews. There are genuine ones (I write some myself) but in many cases the very obvious paid or vested-interest reviews overwhelm things.
Reviews on music forums are mostly different. They're not necessarily objective, but at least they are usually honest and sincere so far as self-delusion and pride will allow.
The thing about "if it's so great, why are they selling" is a non-issue to me. I know from experience that even when one owns a wonderful instrument, the GAS for greener grass rarely goes away for long. I have regrets about selling several guitars, ukuleles, fiddles and, most of all, mandolins. Although I loved them, I was swayed by hype and sold them on in order to sample the delights of The Next Big Thing. That Big Thing was usually also great, but often no greater than what I'd parted with, and sometimes I just didn't connect as well. Many of these sellers will regret parting with the items they advertise for sale.
As has been said, a review is an opinion and nothing more. One may find a review more credible if one knows and respects the credentials of the reviewer. On the other hand, when endorsement and sponsorship are lurking in the background one may wish to apply pinches of salt to taste.
I do have problem with reviewers presenting valid alternative techniques as being particularly problematic unless they can point to an actual, not theoretical, issue. Bolt-on necks, for example. The old chestnut about set necks producing better sustain is, IMO, drivel. My bolt-on Strat sustains better than my set-neck SG and my bolt-on Taylor sustains as well as my Vintage set-neck acoustic. I have always found bolt-on neck construction to have a list of advantages as long as both arms. Others may have, and are welcome to, another opinion but it annoys me when they try to dismiss the alternative as inferior. The same thing happens with finishes: nitro, poly, Tru Oil, French polish... they all have advantages and all are found on expensive instruments.
Reviews can be great sources of factual information that manufacturers and stores leave out of their published specs or may publish on a hard-to-find web page. For example, I recently found a review that had details of the fretboard radius of a guitar I'm considering. I hadn't been able to find that info on the maker's site or any retailer site and it's important to me.
Reviews are just a piece of a jigsaw. The most important piece of that jigsaw is your ears and hands.
One other thing. I never understood how someone can be satisfied until they've heard an instrument being played by someone else. Every instrument I've owned has sounded very different to me when I sat a few feet away from someone else playing it compared to when I was hunched over it twanging away. Reviews rarely reflect that.
If we were talking about reviews on websites such as Amazon, IMDB, Review Centre, Trip Advisor or Trustpilot I would literally LOL at the concept of trust. Forums of that kind are saturated with bogus reviews. There are genuine ones (I write some myself) but in many cases the very obvious paid or vested-interest reviews overwhelm things.
Reviews on music forums are mostly different. They're not necessarily objective, but at least they are usually honest and sincere so far as self-delusion and pride will allow.
The thing about "if it's so great, why are they selling" is a non-issue to me. I know from experience that even when one owns a wonderful instrument, the GAS for greener grass rarely goes away for long. I have regrets about selling several guitars, ukuleles, fiddles and, most of all, mandolins. Although I loved them, I was swayed by hype and sold them on in order to sample the delights of The Next Big Thing. That Big Thing was usually also great, but often no greater than what I'd parted with, and sometimes I just didn't connect as well. Many of these sellers will regret parting with the items they advertise for sale.
As has been said, a review is an opinion and nothing more. One may find a review more credible if one knows and respects the credentials of the reviewer. On the other hand, when endorsement and sponsorship are lurking in the background one may wish to apply pinches of salt to taste.
I do have problem with reviewers presenting valid alternative techniques as being particularly problematic unless they can point to an actual, not theoretical, issue. Bolt-on necks, for example. The old chestnut about set necks producing better sustain is, IMO, drivel. My bolt-on Strat sustains better than my set-neck SG and my bolt-on Taylor sustains as well as my Vintage set-neck acoustic. I have always found bolt-on neck construction to have a list of advantages as long as both arms. Others may have, and are welcome to, another opinion but it annoys me when they try to dismiss the alternative as inferior. The same thing happens with finishes: nitro, poly, Tru Oil, French polish... they all have advantages and all are found on expensive instruments.
Reviews can be great sources of factual information that manufacturers and stores leave out of their published specs or may publish on a hard-to-find web page. For example, I recently found a review that had details of the fretboard radius of a guitar I'm considering. I hadn't been able to find that info on the maker's site or any retailer site and it's important to me.
Reviews are just a piece of a jigsaw. The most important piece of that jigsaw is your ears and hands.
One other thing. I never understood how someone can be satisfied until they've heard an instrument being played by someone else. Every instrument I've owned has sounded very different to me when I sat a few feet away from someone else playing it compared to when I was hunched over it twanging away. Reviews rarely reflect that.
@buddhuu......great point about the need to listen to someone else playing an instrument in question. I don't think I have every read it phrased the way you just did and it really rang a bell with me.
A few weeks back I had a "uke demo day" at my house. It consisted of myself and three other uke playing friends. All of them members here and all of them uke crazy. Instructions were simple, bring a minimum on 4 ukes and we all get to play each others stuff. The benefit was getting to hear your ukes played by other players........very enlightening.
Opinions were made and formed. Playability and dimensions are just as critical as sound for one to be happy with an instrument and that is all a personal "fit" and can only come from playing it. Sometimes we have go buy before we can try. I have two ukes that I absolutely love the sound of, the looks of, the over all quality is excellent. But I am thinking of selling them because the necks are slimmer than I prefer. When I put them in the marketplace and gush all over them about the sound and how great I think they are will I be perceived as being "less than honest" in my opinion of them?.
A few weeks back I had a "uke demo day" at my house. It consisted of myself and three other uke playing friends. All of them members here and all of them uke crazy. Instructions were simple, bring a minimum on 4 ukes and we all get to play each others stuff. The benefit was getting to hear your ukes played by other players........very enlightening.
Opinions were made and formed. Playability and dimensions are just as critical as sound for one to be happy with an instrument and that is all a personal "fit" and can only come from playing it. Sometimes we have go buy before we can try. I have two ukes that I absolutely love the sound of, the looks of, the over all quality is excellent. But I am thinking of selling them because the necks are slimmer than I prefer. When I put them in the marketplace and gush all over them about the sound and how great I think they are will I be perceived as being "less than honest" in my opinion of them?.
Last edited:
I recently sold a uke, not on here. I was completely honest with the buyer. There is a small indention, etc, They had heard me play the uke, so they knew the sound.
Personally, I can understand if something does not fit your hand. But when you see people talking up their uke when selling it, it comes across as less than genuine. First off, you're selling it, so at this present time you're not pleased with it, unless you need the money. Maybe you're in the throws of UAS.
If you put up a sound sample of your uke that you're selling then you want be perceived as dishonest. You can let the buyer decide.
You also bring up a good point about how the instrument sounds in other people's hands. I know for myself that when I hear a sound sample, that I like to hear each string plucked. I then like to hear a couple of chords played allowing the notes to decay. A good player will show the instrument near its top form. The opposite is true of a poorer player ( chords and notes not fretted well, etc..)
Last edited:
Michael N.
Well-known member
I haven't done any reviews but I have done quite a number of A,B type blind tests. I had two guitars finished that were very different in construction, different models with different wood types. I had been playing these guitars for a couple of weeks and I had come to a firm opinion on the tonal merits of each one. They sounded very different to each other, especially on the high treble string.
One day a friend turned up and I asked him to turn his back whilst I played each instrument in succession. These were single notes on the high E string. A quick alteration between each instrument, perhaps no more that 6 or 7 seconds between playing each instrument. I did the A,B comparison 5 or 6 times. I was astonished when he informed me that he couldn't differentiate between the two. I actually found it pretty frustrating because the difference was quite obvious to myself, the person doing the playing. I tried again. He still couldn't differentiate between the two. I'd had enough. I handed him both guitars (he can play quite well) and told him that I would do the blind test. The outcome left me exasperated. I couldn't differentiate between them either. In fact I had no idea which was which. Yet whilst playing each instrument the tonal difference seemed very obvious. It did to my friend. I suspect there's much more going on than just 'tone' by itself. When we try an instrument we quite often come at it with pre conceived notions. I suspect the look, feel and weight of the instrument may alter our perception of tone. It's a lot more complex than just sound/tone.
One day a friend turned up and I asked him to turn his back whilst I played each instrument in succession. These were single notes on the high E string. A quick alteration between each instrument, perhaps no more that 6 or 7 seconds between playing each instrument. I did the A,B comparison 5 or 6 times. I was astonished when he informed me that he couldn't differentiate between the two. I actually found it pretty frustrating because the difference was quite obvious to myself, the person doing the playing. I tried again. He still couldn't differentiate between the two. I'd had enough. I handed him both guitars (he can play quite well) and told him that I would do the blind test. The outcome left me exasperated. I couldn't differentiate between them either. In fact I had no idea which was which. Yet whilst playing each instrument the tonal difference seemed very obvious. It did to my friend. I suspect there's much more going on than just 'tone' by itself. When we try an instrument we quite often come at it with pre conceived notions. I suspect the look, feel and weight of the instrument may alter our perception of tone. It's a lot more complex than just sound/tone.
Last edited:
buddhuu
Super Moderator (Retired)
I'm sceptical of sound samples over the internet. There are too many variables: mics, editing software, file compression, player software, speakers/headphones. They may be useful to give very general impressions, or in direct comparisons recorded at the same time with the same equipment, but that's about it.
As for hearing an instrument in another player's hands, for me it's not about hearing a good player bringing out the best in the instrument (although there's no denying that can be enlightening and inspiring), it's mostly simply to hear the tone as perceived by an audience rather than by the player as proximity and position make a big difference to the perceived sound. An average intermediate player does that job just fine.
On the subject of perceived sound, some of you may be surprised just how loud your ukes are when heard from out in front. Try playing while standing facing a wall - about a metre away - or (if you can get the angle right) a corner where two walls meet.
Rllink
Well-known member
I don't care how many sound samples you listen to, or how many reviews you read, there is no sure thing. Sooner or later, you have to take a leap of faith. I have a friend who will agonize for weeks, or even months, read every review he can find, watch youtube videos, and exhaust every option before he buys almost anything. I, on the other hand, am much more willing to throw caution to the wind and see what happens. I would say that he suffers disappointment more than I do, because with all his research and agonizing over everything, he generally gets an image of something in his mind, or some expectations, that he seldom ends up with in his hands. I'm not saying that research isn't good, but a person can get bogged down in it sometimes.
Last edited:
Kiwiohana
Well-known member
*makes mental note to watch the Marketplace like a hawk*
You have some lovely instruments Dave, I bet they will go real quick!
Personally, I research to a mild level, and then take the leap of faith. Living where I do I don't have the luxury of going and trying the instruments out, unless I am buying cheaper mass produced models. I will listen to sound clips, but I don't expect that's what the instrument will actually sound like - there are two many variables.
I would much rather trust the opinions of people like Dave - a guy I have never met, but whose posts always make sense to me and who has a great mix of instruments that also ring my bells. There are lots of people on this forum that fall into that category, and it is through the likes of you that I have grown my ukulele knowledge. Without this forum, I really would be making a completely blind decision. So thanks guys!
I don't believe in the group mentality. There are definitely a few rain makers here that will make someone consider a brand but the quality of the make and sound will ultimately be the final test. There isn't enough money in the uke business for a brand to last.
Buddhuu,
You make many good points about sound. I would have to agree that an instrument is not going to sound like it come through on the computer. I'm looking at amps now and there are some brands that I can not get in my location. I've been trying to listen but there are so many variables with amps.
I actually did a test where I played my uke between the corner of two walls. It was surprisingly loud. I'm sure the sound bouncing off the wall made a difference but I was surprised.
Rlink,
This is a very good post. I agree about agonizing over the research. I'll research electronics but mostly to see about reliability. Does the piece of equipment last.
You get an ideal of what you're getting and of course it never works out that way. Our ideal is always above reality.
You make many good points about sound. I would have to agree that an instrument is not going to sound like it come through on the computer. I'm looking at amps now and there are some brands that I can not get in my location. I've been trying to listen but there are so many variables with amps.
I actually did a test where I played my uke between the corner of two walls. It was surprisingly loud. I'm sure the sound bouncing off the wall made a difference but I was surprised.
Rlink,
This is a very good post. I agree about agonizing over the research. I'll research electronics but mostly to see about reliability. Does the piece of equipment last.
You get an ideal of what you're getting and of course it never works out that way. Our ideal is always above reality.
Where do people learn about certain brands or luthiers? It mostly comes from the forum. The group decides what ukulele brands are known and admired.
There may be some unknown luthiers who may build instruments better than the talked about luthiers on UU. We just don't know them. Someone in the group has not told us.
You have a very loose interpretation of group mentality. For almost everything we buy, someone needs to tell us about it. Just because someone says there's a new brand, that's not group menatality.
Group mentality is someone says this is a good brand and we all admire. This site trys to follow the aloha spirit and the rules state don't be a jerk. If someone doesn't like something, most people will not say anything. That doesn't mean we all agree. Also, since the community is so small and the luthiers are very accessible and often on the site, we all try to be respectful.
Steveperrywriter
Well-known member
Quality, like talent, will out -- if there are terrific brands of ukes out there, folks here who get one will be apt to tell you. If you think there is some kind of hive-mind conspiracy to keep that quiet? Maybe you need to rethink that ...
johnson430
Well-known member
What are you talking about?
There was no talk of a hive mind or some conspiracy.
Question:
You call yourself ...writer.
Do you even understand how to properly use ellipsis marks?
I do not think so; and I say this as an English teacher.
I would like to offer you a friendly challenge. Let's post a thread for suggestions about a story topic in the Gen Discussions. (Must be uke related)
Then we both write a story on the agreed suggestion and have the other members vote on their favorite.
I am a writer at heart and it is my profession to teach others this craft.
I am curious as to how my writing stands up to yours.
Sincerely,
Johnson
Last edited:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Perry_(author)
hmmm...just because you write sincerely...are you sincere? I no idea wat ellipsis marks are but I'm ESL.
70sSanO
Well-known member
UU has a list of builders and you can knock yourself out researching them. You can also spend a little more time reading threads in the Ukulele Building / Luthier's Lounge. A lot of good things happen a dozen sub-forums down from here.
I usually stop into local music stores, not the big box ones, when I'm on vacation to check out what they have. Every now and then you stumble across something. I think that is a great resource to find local builders.
There are probably groups or guilds that have members that make instruments. Here is one in Southern California...
http://www.simscal.com/
I've actually searched ebay a number of times and if something catches my eye, I'll google it, or the luthier. Found my last ukulele that way. My first tenor that way also.
A lot of times a guitar builder will also make ukuleles and that is another avenue.
And the pursuit can be a lot of fun also.
John
Edit added... At least my secrets are safe. No one will see it in the middle of this fray!
Last edited:
johnson430
Well-known member
Dan,
maybe this will help you.
An ellipsis (plural: ellipses) is a punctuation mark consisting of three dots. Use an ellipsis when omitting a word, phrase, line, paragraph, or more from a quoted passage. Ellipses save space or remove material that is less relevant.
Regards,
Johnson =)
wayfarer75
Well-known member
Generally speaking, I find it best to argue against a poster's point rather than argue about a poster's punctuation. Especially in a setting like this where we write very informally.
This thread may have jumped the shark. Would the moderators please consider it for closure?
Similar threads
